Answers before the questions regarding site safety.

flashover604

flashover604

TreeHouser
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
443
Location
Lancaster Ohio
Hi all. I had a guy ask me about taking down two 40' dead ash trees the other day. They're deader than door nails. There's no trees near them that you could put a tie in point. You can't just drop them due to other trees that he doesn't want damaged. The only way that I could see doing the job would be to rent a lift and dismantle them from the tops down. He had gotten a quote from someone that had done tree work for him in the past. I couldn't believe it when he told me $2300! He said that was on top of the lift rental. These are MAYBE 12" and 10" diameter trees.

I told him that I wouldn't be able to get them down safely. I got to thinking though, what all would be involved in renting a lift and doing a job similar? I know that my insurance is sufficient, and they won't rent to you if it's not, but what else is there?

I know you need an OSHA compliant harness and tether, and I assume you'd need to have some sort of OSHA approved training. On top of that, if I had someone helping me, now I assume that I'm technically an employer unless the other person is part owner of the business.

I would expect to need hard hats on everyone, safety vests, gloves, safety briefing in the morning, etc., but I bet there are a ton of things that us new guys have no clue about.

I'd appreciate any insight for future reference.

Thanks in advance!
 
drop zone identified and impact allowable/sensible. obstacles. chaps for ground cutting. any elec conductors. access (possible damage). eye and ear protection. to name a few
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
I'm just trying to keep my luck out of it! With my luck, I'll be cutting the first one and OSHA will pull up. My few hundred dollars profit goes poof and I have no idea how much trouble I'm in. This is a REALLY nice neighborhood. When I was looking around I spotted eight other ash trees that would need to come down as well, so it wouldn't be a quick job if I even accepted it. I don't think money is really a problem. The owners have sold two companies in the last several years for $15-$20 million apiece. I'd LOVE to get the job, but it would take me several days if I could get a lift in there. I've never hired any laborers before, so I'm not sure how to even go about it legally. This would be the first job I took that paid more than a few hundred dollars and that I couldn't do by myself. If need someone on the ground to pull limbs away and stack cut wood on site.

I'm confident that I COULD chew it. I'm just hesitant to BITE.
 
Legally smegally!

Get an experienced freelance climber in for a day, pay him $300 or so, charge the client $1500.

He who dares...
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
What I've figured out on the job so far is:
1 ash, 60' tall $1500
9 ash, 35-45' tall. $500 apiece to dismantle
Lift rental and Fiberglas mats (Bil-Jax 55' towable but self-propelled with out riggers) $1500/week

I'd bill for cutting, splitting, and stacking on site, as well as removing any remaining brush. $?

I have a friend that has cut with me in the past. I just don't know how to pay him.

Honestly, it could end up being $8500-$9500.

I'd love the money, and I think the work would be entirely manageable, it's just all of the unknown stuff I'm concerned about.
 
Honestly I can't add any more, if you want someone to hold your hand through the whole thing, maybe you should bow out.
If you want to make money and are prepared to make a leap, then do it.
 
Working out of a tall enough bucket means the ability to cut all pieces small.

Safety rules only applies to employees.
 
If you are not set up for the job, well.......

I have to walk away from jobs, too big for one person to handle in the time frame the custy wants.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
I think I'd be all right with the timeframe. There will be two of us and we'll have four days planned with three more available if/when we run into snags. I wouldn't have a problem doing the trees if I could just drop them. I just didn't know what legal stuff I'd run into. It looks like since I don't have employees and the other guy is a partner I shouldn't have to worry about OSHA either. That was my big concern. I'll let you know if info the job and how it shakes out.

Thanks for all of the advice. I appreciate it.
 
Good luck and climb safe.
I always keep in mind that mother earth calls everything to her bosom and sharp tools cut skin and bone.
 
Is osha prevalent in your Area? They are very present in factories and such around here, haven't seen them since I went off on my own.
The rental places around here don't require any proof of insurance to rent a lift, they'll even send it out without a fall arrest harness. The harness costs and extra 12 or 18 or something like that.
I'd run it through with your buddy and reach and agreement, then go for it. You seem thoughtful, cautious and therfore safe, just remember that the damage waiver very specifically DOES NOT cover things falling on the lift (probably the only words on the paperwork that I actually read).

If I weren't in the middle of moving I would offer to team up with you the time I go to Ohio to visit family, 2 sole proprietors - no worries. But things look busy for me till after new years.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
The rental places here all have different requirements. The best I've found wants $1,000,000 per occurrence and $2,000,000 aggregate plus $100,000 equipment rental insurance. Another one wanted that PLUS a $2,000,000 umbrella policy. Crazy.
 
They way it works here is that your basically fine unless there's an incident, its seems our ohs agencies are more preoccupied with development etc. There's no way for them to schedule an audit unless they happen to be driving past (small chance). As long as you have correct ppe, hazard assessments and "safe work place method statments" then you'd be fine. Like I said that's how it works here... as far as I know they won't verify insurance or quals on a site inspection.
 
I w Mick on this , you totally over thought the job. OSHA compliance is nice but in the reality of residential work you really won't see them unless you F up. Focus on the task at hand , safety and techniques.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Ok. Thanks for the advice. I'm going to submit a bid and see if I get it. We work safe, so I'm not overly concerned about us. I'll let you know how it goes. This could be our first really big job. It'd be nice to be able to put a big chunk (for me) in the savings account.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
$1500 is a little lower than I would've done if it was the only tree. I built the remainder into the other nine trees on the bid. Most of them are 30-40' with very few limbs left on them. The price is contingent on doing all ten.
 
That is an interesting contrast between vharrison's opinion and Mick's opinion. Different markets, maybe. Or vharrison has a much bigger nut to turn on her whole operation, and feels she has to charge accordingly. I think I remember seeing a photo of her lot with a ton of really great looking heavy equipment.

On an unrelated note, @flashover604, I've been in the construction trade for about twenty five years or so, and have never once seen or spoken to someone from OSHA. I get the feeling they mostly only show up when someone calls them in after a bad accident. Like the police, maybe, after a report was filed because someone was badly maimed or killed. I could be wrong, though; just my impression of things.

Tim
 
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