Valid Drivers License shines like a college degree these days.

It seems to me that those that are lifers in this work usually are aerial workers. It seems ground workers are usually those that are just laborers that haven't found their calling yet. How many men really retire as ground workers?
 
All about money Chris, why flog your nuts off every day for low wages and the prospect of a branch on your head when you can work in a factory for more money, holidays, sick etc.
The only people who make any money that you can build a life with are the business owners. Large or small.
Sure, subby climbers do alright till they get too old or minor injuries take their toll.
Nearly all my groundies have had one problem or another, as I've got older I've become more tolerant.
 
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  • #78
cory said:
Finding workers is tough. Lately I've been having decent luck with workers from temp agencies, they cost more but for the most part, are decent and reliable, knock on wood.

My excellent climber has a friend who is tough, they both are tough, and have been in a lot of street fights, fwiw. A few months ago I learned the friend had started being a groundie for a tree service a couple towns over. I was bummed he hadn't signed on with me instead. So recently I asked my climber how his friend was doing with the tree work, he replied that he was working at a Ford dealership now. I reacted with surprise that he had moved on, given the kid's nature that I presumed would be highly compatible with tree work.

My climber, who has a tendency to say Yogi Barra-ish things, replied, "Cmon man, don't you know nobody wants to do tree work? Unless they want to do treework"

Lol, I think he's got a point there.
Click to expand...

Two things:
1. All my guys are through temp
2. Yogi Bera-ish comments are awesome.
I heard myself tell a friend of mine a while back that the best surprises are the ones you don't expect.


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  • #79
Tucker943 said:
It seems to me that those that are lifers in this work usually are aerial workers. It seems ground workers are usually those that are just laborers that haven't found their calling yet. How many men really retire as ground workers?
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I have a ground man that has been on for five years. He's worthy of climber wages. I pay him $15 an hour which equates to almost $25 per hour at the temp service. I think I'm going to have to give him a raise soon. . .


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Give him a raise and retain him!!!!!!

Give no consideration to what it costs going through the temp agency. Most costs would be on you anyway (WC, SS, unemployment, book keeping). He still gets $15/ hour. I pay Erik $18 for climbing some simple prunes (training him in all modern ways in the process), groundwork, some easy bids, maintenance, driving. I offered him $20 an hour if he passes the ISA CA, on my dime, with my help, paying for CEU opportunities, ISA membership. I GUESS $18/ hour wage translates to $25-27/ hour end-cost.
 
La becasse said:
The only people who make any money that you can build a life with are the business owners. Large or small.
Click to expand...

I think top guys for these owners can do fine, $25-$35/ hr. An owner makes more but he's gotta pull his hair out to do it.

as I've got older I've become more tolerant.
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Me too, big time.
 
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  • #82
SouthSoundTree said:
Give him a raise and retain him!!!!!!

Give no consideration to what it costs going through the temp agency. Most costs would be on you anyway (WC, SS, unemployment, book keeping). He still gets $15/ hour. I pay Erik $18 for climbing some simple prunes (training him in all modern ways in the process), groundwork, some easy bids, maintenance, driving. I offered him $20 an hour if he passes the ISA CA, on my dime, with my help, paying for CEU opportunities, ISA membership. I GUESS $18/ hour wage translates to $25-27/ hour end-cost.
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Will do. I'll post back here when he has the raise too. This particular guy, I can't imagine as a climber though. I've tried putting him in leadership positions before but he's a head down, bulldozer type guy who will allow himself to be led by anyone which isn't what I'm looking for in a leader. Incredible lowering man, excellent driver, backing up etc. Still though, I've had younger take-charge guys that weren't qualified for the charge they were taking and he will yield to them even with his seniority. All this guy wants to do is work. He says he loves dismantling/processing large piles of brush. Anything remotely resembling paperwork or adult level responsibility with that sort of thing isn't his strong suit. He can't be relied on to keep track of or turn in his own hours. If I didn't guard his financial welfare he would probably not even get paid. So many times I've been trying to get him to remember what his hours were and he just tells me, don't worry about it it's on me, just because of the mental effort it takes to keep track of it. I pay him extra when there's a question because I'm afraid of being struck by lightning if I take advantage of such an honest gentle hard-working soul.


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I don't know Cory, guys who run the show always like to make a big song and dance about their problems, you see it on here a lot you know the sort of thing. IMO it's a sort of smokescreen to convince the drones not to startup on their own.
There was a survey somewhere by someone which said that owners of business's often have a bit more hassle the fact that they are in charge of their life reduces the stress, they actually run their own lives! whereas the employee who on the face of it has less problems is stressed because he has no actual control of his life, made sense to me.
 
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  • #84
True, I detest having to go before the Monarch and request time off.

Having said that though, hard work consistently with a touch of frugality is one road to financial security.
 
August Hunicke said:
Will do. I'll post back here when he has the raise too. This particular guy, I can't imagine as a climber though. I've tried putting him in leadership positions before but he's a head down, bulldozer type guy who will allow himself to be led by anyone which isn't what I'm looking for in a leader. Incredible lowering man, excellent driver, backing up etc. Still though, I've had younger take-charge guys that weren't qualified for the charge they were taking and he will yield to them even with his seniority. All this guy wants to do is work. He says he loves dismantling/processing large piles of brush. Anything remotely resembling paperwork or adult level responsibility with that sort of thing isn't his strong suit. He can't be relied on to keep track of or turn in his own hours. If I didn't guard his financial welfare he would probably not even get paid. So many times I've been trying to get him to remember what his hours were and he just tells me, don't worry about it it's on me, just because of the mental effort it takes to keep track of it. I pay him extra when there's a question because I'm afraid of being struck by lightning if I take advantage of such an honest gentle hard-working soul.
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You sir, are nuts, for not throwing some more loot in his direction to try to ensure staying power.

Maybe you should reread your post...:/: Lets see, the way I read it:excellent driver (CRITICAL SKILL), excellent on ropes (CRITICAL SKILL), "all he wants to do is work" (UM, YEAH, CRITICAL CRITICAL SKILL), loves to destroy large pile of brush (YES, CRITICAL), honest as the day is long (CRITICAL, YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT. MATTER OF FACT, YOU CANT TEACH ANY OF THE STUFF MENTIONED).

Buy, ya know, you're right about the guy. I have a good idea: You replace him with somebody with, ahem, leadership qualities, and just give him the plane ticket to CT that I'm sending you.
 
La becasse said:
I don't know Cory, guys who run the show always like to make a big song and dance about their problems, you see it on here a lot you know the sort of thing. IMO it's a sort of smokescreen to convince the drones not to startup on their own.
There was a survey somewhere by someone which said that owners of business's often have a bit more hassle the fact that they are in charge of their life reduces the stress, they actually run their own lives! whereas the employee who on the face of it has less problems is stressed because he has no actual control of his life, made sense to me.
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Its all relative. As the Dylan song says, "We all gotta Serve somebody"

Me? I would make an awesome employee for somebody. I love tree work, its almost all I think about. But I hate appointments, calls, emails, repairs, scheduling, dealing with custys, employees, you name it I hate it, except cutting wood.;)
 
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  • #89
cory said:
You sir, are nuts, for not throwing some more loot in his direction to try to ensure staying power.

Maybe you should reread your post...:/: Lets see, the way I read it:excellent driver (CRITICAL SKILL), excellent on ropes (CRITICAL SKILL), "all he wants to do is work" (UM, YEAH, CRITICAL CRITICAL SKILL), loves to destroy large pile of brush (YES, CRITICAL), honest as the day is long (CRITICAL, YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT. MATTER OF FACT, YOU CANT TEACH ANY OF THE STUFF MENTIONED).

Buy, ya know, you're right about the guy. I have a good idea: You replace him with somebody with, ahem, leadership qualities, and just give him the plane ticket to CT that I'm sending you.
Click to expand...

I started off the post by saying he's getting a raise. Just saying though, I couldn't expect him to lead a crew in other words, delegate. He doesn't delegate. He will definitely be the first ground man that I've ever paid more than $15 an hour to over the table. I've never heard of anyone else paying a ground man, who has never climbed, more than $15 an hour over the table either. Unless they were lifetime employees of a line clearance company or something. I pay my experienced climber $22.50 per hour which equates to over $35 an hour at the temp service. What do you think the ceiling is on a ground man who won't climb?


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Id give a groundman 20-25 an hour if they can remember what to do each morning. The guy i got now is moving but he would be paid that if he decided to come back. I trained him this year over senas and we rock the shit out. Seriously.
 
This thread is really interesting! It is crazy to me that it is this hard to find good people. I love being a climber and always thought there were a ton of guys and gals in line to take my job. I have always treated my employers with honesty and respect and that is all I ask for in return. If I dont get that i move on. Not having to worry about the business side of things allows me to concentrate on climbing and getting better at what i do. Maybe it is just the stage of my career, but I thought i would chime in as an employee.
 
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  • #92
Wow! That right there is all I would need to see for a perfect resume. You might want to cut and paste that somewhere.
 
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  • #93
He costs me $25 per hour right now over the table. This isn't exactly the most booming economy around here. If I pay him $25 per hour over the table, that will equate to $40 per hour. I could justify it if it was just me and him on the job each day because I would be safeguarding efficiency, not leaving tools behind, not having quality control related go backs, absorbing the cost of paying a skilled climber etc. I typically run a four man crew though and that sort of pay scale could take quite the edge off competitive pricing and narrow the profit margin down to a point that could be depressing. I know I'm paying better than my competitors around me. I wonder what Willy Giing would say about this. He is near me.


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lonniels said:
This thread is really interesting! It is crazy to me that it is this hard to find good people. I love being a climber and always thought there were a ton of guys and gals in line to take my job. I have always treated my employers with honesty and respect and that is all I ask for in return. If I dont get that i move on. Not having to worry about the business side of things allows me to concentrate on climbing and getting better at what i do. Maybe it is just the stage of my career, but I thought i would chime in as an employee.
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HI lonniels, decent climbers are probably easier to get as they have an interest/training in the job, groundies are a different kettle of fish. Also it's a bit more interesting even glamorous. Good to hear your perspective.
 
La becasse said:
HI lonniels, decent climbers are probably easier to get as they have an interest/training in the job, groundies are a different kettle of fish. Also it's a bit more interesting even glamorous. Good to hear your perspective.
Click to expand...

I always thought being a groundie was just the apprenticeship part of this job. If you are competant you should move up or graduate from groundie to climber. It might take years, but i would guess a lot of groundies move up or move on.
 
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  • #97
That's almost always true.

Another thing that's usually true that I've noticed.
Not always!
But the best ground men are usually climbers. They have more of the big picture about what's going on and can anticipate the next move.
 
August Hunicke said:
I started off the post by saying he's getting a raise. Just saying though, I couldn't expect him to lead a crew in other words, delegate. He doesn't delegate. He will definitely be the first ground man that I've ever paid more than $15 an hour to over the table. I've never heard of anyone else paying a ground man, who has never climbed, more than $15 an hour over the table either. Unless they were lifetime employees of a line clearance company or something. I pay my experienced climber $22.50 per hour which equates to over $35 an hour at the temp service. What do you think the ceiling is on a ground man who won't climb?


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Click to expand...

How much do you think he brings in per hour versus how much he puts out? There is no absolute ceiling. If he can make you $300 profit, you wouldn't think twice about paying him $100/ hour. Very arbitrary numbers, of course, to make a point. $20-25 into his Gross Pay...remember how you pay him 25, costs 40. He earns 25/ hour, gets $21.63 net, or whatever. Its the $21.63 that pays his rent, and the $40 that comes out of your pocket. The other numbers are just a base number, IMO.

If he is not one to delegate, or record hours, high level blah blah blah, and you have a 4 man crew, what are his best strengths, and what can be done to use those to his best ability, along with removing challenging tasks? What about an actual punch in/ punch out time clock for everyone? My old boss used one, probably a hand me down from a family business. Don't know if its useful. We had to hand write in things, like lunch break, or if someone arrived directly at the jobsite from home. Cross referencing others' time cards helps everyone fill in the blanks. Or maybe a timeclock app on your phone????

Is there a guy that's better with the daily checklist/ inspection/ prep (whatever you do in your morning), while Brawny does brawny stuff? Play to his strengths. Is he really good on maintenance of anything in particular (saws, chipper, trucks?) or is he just brawn?

My ex-employee Harvey was just brawn. Safe enough. He grunted a lot... I couldn't of taken using the Sena comms with him. Haha.



Do you think he has a learning disability or something else going on that he doesn't do the adult stuff well?
 
lonniels said:
This thread is really interesting! It is crazy to me that it is this hard to find good people. I love being a climber and always thought there were a ton of guys and gals in line to take my job. I have always treated my employers with honesty and respect and that is all I ask for in return. If I dont get that i move on. Not having to worry about the business side of things allows me to concentrate on climbing and getting better at what i do. Maybe it is just the stage of my career, but I thought i would chime in as an employee.
Click to expand...
That used to be the norm,up in till these last couple years never had a prolem finding good , hard working guys. But as the years go by more and more good people are letting this world get the best of them, and it interferes with the work they used to love to do to now that paycheck they need to make it through to the next day
 
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