sotc
Dormant hero!!
Yes, very handy knot. If you want to rap off a decender with a second system you can back up the ascender. I bet you will think of a thousand things to use it for. We send up alot of things to the climber with it.
bstewert
TreeHouser
OK, it's early Sun morn and I'm not awake yet.
It's just a slip knot! Geez. Here I was getting all wound up to learn a new knot with a fancy name. I use it all the time for a thousand things.
Now back to the purpose. Just a stopper, right?
It's just a slip knot! Geez. Here I was getting all wound up to learn a new knot with a fancy name. I use it all the time for a thousand things.
Now back to the purpose. Just a stopper, right?
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Yes! Here Bob, just for you!
bstewert
TreeHouser
https://www.masterblasterhome.com/images/smilies/aaf_pfft.gif
bstewert
TreeHouser
How do I get "just" the smiley?
sotc
Dormant hero!!
One of these : next to one of these P
Like this
Like this
bstewert
TreeHouser
Got it now.
As Cary said, this is for SRT, and particularly for systems that do not require a change over for descent. Self-rescue ability should be your first choice and makes the already low likelihood of needing to be rescued even lower.
I have tried in-line eights in place of the butterfly and though tidy and strong, after 5 or 6 hours bouncing on them they can be tough to untie. Not so the butterflies.
The knots getting snagged on something is certainly possible and something to consider when you are setting things up. For them to get stopped by your point of suspension, would require that the rescue be initiated from that point, or that the landing point is a much longer distance in respect to the base tie.
Again, things to consider for your setup.
This anchor point system is specifically designed for simplicity in the hopes that it will be used often. As things get more complicated and require more gear, we can find exceptions or reasons why we won't use it in this instance. It often turns out that is just the time when it was needed.
Dave
flushcut
TreeHouser
You know that is an out standing point I over looked. I mostly climb DRT so my bad.why would they have a friction saver installed on an SRT line?
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Actually ... I have used a friction saver on an isolated crotch for my SRT as I was going to switch over to Ddrt once I was in canopy and had long limb walks to do. I prefer it on long limb walks. Ask Stig about some of our limb walks Some were at least 60 feet.
Some were at least 60 feet. Attachments
flushcut
TreeHouser
I have a bur oak to do this winter that is similar but not as wide spread maybe 80-90' diameter at the drip edge. The tree is actually on the state record as one of the oldest known oaks in WI estimated at 475-550 years.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
THAT will be awesome. I would love to climb one like that. I like width more than height on a climb. Just more fun for me.
flushcut
TreeHouser
It should be a gas the old gal needs some dead wooding and some storm damage pruning but that is about it. The best part is that the tree is on my buddies moms property.
Bodean
Cali dreamer
SRT tie off or any tie off for that matter,
my buddy at work runs a block over a crotch and runs his climbline through that.
He used to wrap a bunch of konts, but then I just started setting him up with
carabiner through an alpine butterfly back on the rope itself. Pretty basic.
my buddy at work runs a block over a crotch and runs his climbline through that.
He used to wrap a bunch of konts, but then I just started setting him up with
carabiner through an alpine butterfly back on the rope itself. Pretty basic.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Be nice if you can get some pictures Rajan. Sounds like a beauty of a tree.
Jack
Treehouser
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,537
why would they have a friction saver installed on an SRT line?
A case can be made for using a cambium saver on an SRT line when using a ground anchor. During the natural bounce of climbing and working, the stretch in the line will cause a back-and-forth 'sawing' action on the limb over which the line runs. On a thin bark tree, like fagus grandifoia, this 'sawing action' could open a wound in the tree. On a rough bark tree or a crotch with a lot of included bark that back-and-forth movement of the rope could cause excessive wear in a localized area of the rope.
... just what I was taught, FWIW.
flushcut
TreeHouser
I can get pics but I still have to learn how to resize them. I will however work on it as it is one spectacular tree for sure.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Down load GIMP and play with it... You can change the size of the pics by pixel or percent. Percent is easier on my brain, so depending on the size of the photo... 5MB or 2MB (different cameras and settings) I usually drop them down to 30-36 percent respectively. That keeps them around 1/2 meg for upload.
GIMP is free.
GIMP is free.
Burnham
Woods walker
A case can be made for using a cambium saver on an SRT line when using a ground anchor. During the natural bounce of climbing and working, the stretch in the line will cause a back-and-forth 'sawing' action on the limb over which the line runs. On a thin bark tree, like fagus grandifoia, this 'sawing action' could open a wound in the tree. On a rough bark tree or a crotch with a lot of included bark that back-and-forth movement of the rope could cause excessive wear in a localized area of the rope.
... just what I was taught, FWIW.
Or pitch the bejeezus out of a short section of rope in some conifers.
That said, I just deal with cleaning it later, for the most part. One big advantage to SRT is not needing to isolate the crotch, so the only type I use in a case like this is the leather sleeve.
It's a fair point, Jack.
rangerdanger
TreeHouser
There is also a new anchor system Kevin is working on that involves using a ring 2 ring friction saver. It allows you to anchor the rope at your TIP, so only a single load force is applied, be able to pull it out from the ground, and still go through multiple redirects and have no real trouble pulling it out. Have to get some pics up later, and I don't want to derail this thread.
pete mctree
Treehouser
Any tie off that involves someone waving a knife around my ropes, especially when stress & adrenalin levels are peaking, scares the crap out of me. I will stick with my fig 8 & prussic back-up thanks
Burnham
Woods walker
Me too...I'm with Pete on this one. I see zero advantage to that system.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Sounds like using something marlin spiked (or similar) into the system so you can just hang off the R2RFS.
Let me see if I can add some perspective. I have been a climber for 43+ years. I've been injured plenty of times while climbing and yet have never needed a ground-based rescue. How many times have you needed a ground-based rescue, Burnham, Pete, anyone? For the amount of hours we spend in a tree assisted rescue is very rare. The potential need increased dramatically with access lines and cammed ascenders. With an aerial change over that takes clear thinking and dexterity, a pre-set, functional and manned base-tied rescue system would make sense, and has in use, shone its worth.
Now enter line access with the ability to immediately change directions from ascent to descent without a changeover. The potential need for rescuing has once again taken a huge plunge. It will be a rarity at best. In truth, almost all serious injuries require immediate attention and will fail if much time elapses. As I said, self-rescue should always be your first choice.
Think of this base tie as the "what if" long shot. Certainly not designed for repetitive use, but it allows the possibility. When you are tasked with climbing 10 to 20 trees in a day, the time and complexity of how you access those trees does make a difference. So sometimes simple solutions may have their place.
Understand this is from my perspective with a work partner of over 20 years who I imminently trust with my life. Everything in tree work is situational. What may be outstanding for one, may be completely inappropriate for another.
Dave
Jack
Treehouser
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,537
Pete's, Burnham's & Dave's, perspectives are profound and certainly to the point. I've been lucky (ain't nothin' like luck), never had a serious injury, just minor cuts & bruises (thank God). However, every -- I mean EVERY injury happened while securely positioned and lanyarded-in.
So, for me anyway, the concept of a 'rescue-ground-anchor' begs some very serious questions: What's the chance of being injured while ascending or descending on a freely hanging life line so the climber can be lowered from a ground anchor? Is it true that most injuries aloft happen while securely lanyarded-in? If the climber can release the lanyard(s) isn't self-rescue the best option? If an injured climber can't release the lanyard(s), then wouldn't another climber have to set and climb another rope to make a rescue? What's the point of a rescue oriented ground anchor if it leaves a disabled climber hanging from a lanyard?
Don't get me wrong ... I use trunk-wraps & quick-link ground anchors when I can't isolate a TIP ... and for climber training, 'belayable' ground anchors make some sense ... but, for work rescue, I gotta respect Burnham's wording: "I see zero advantage to that system."
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