'Z' Rig...

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I have used GRCS's on courses for lifting heavy limbs on pruning applications but cranking it directly below the work being done made me a bit nervous.

Like I said a touchy tree has no time to fall sideways with a practiced truck pull. Try that with a Goods.

Redirect the rope so you're not cranking under the work. I, too, have lifted with a truck as the MA. But I will point out that there are situations where this is not practical, and where the goods is the better tool for the job. I don't disagree with you Willard, but the goods can do some pretty amazing things, in short order, that would take a pick up truck a lot longer, and with less control or awareness of how far the rigging is being pushed.

I'm with Rajan
 
Redirect the rope so you're not cranking under the work. I, too, have lifted with a truck as the MA. But I will point out that there are situations where this is not practical, and where the goods is the better tool for the job. I don't disagree with you Willard, but the goods can do some pretty amazing things, in short order, that would take a pick up truck a lot longer, and with less control or awareness of how far the rigging is being pushed.

Young bull said.. let's run down there with our amazing GRCS and get one of them cows..

old bull said.. let drive down there in 4x4 low range and get 'em all...

I go with "the right tool for the job" adage.

How 'bout
"do what needs doing with what you got"
????

I LOVE YOU ALL!

A sign of over-work, We've been pushing hard every day til dark..
 
For the record, I don't own a goods. All that is in my rigging kit are fiddle blocks, portawrap 2 ton block and a shitpile of rope. I've used a truck plenty. But, I've contract climbed for those with a goods, and in the right situ the young bull is coming back up the hill with the cows while the ol bull is digging his 4x out with a 3 foot shovel.

Will I be spending the 2500 anytime soon? No. Do I use a pickup? Sure. Do I still think that the goods (or any trunk mounted device which lets you pretension, lift and lower) is the cats pyjamas? Yes.
 
I used to think the exact same way too, but the truck pull works excellent. I use 3/4" Stable braid x 200 ft. I redirect with a 3 ton stainless block and 3/4" sling. Setup is quick. Several times I had pulled a tree in a back yard with the truck in the front yard with 3 pulley-block redirects and 400 ft of rope.
I have pulled many a huge dead hardwoods with excessive backlean and with the truck pull the tree has no time to fall side ways when the hinge fails.
The truck works excellent for tensioning the Stable braid as a guy line also. I never have to worry about side lean again, just gotta make sure I get my gunsight right for those tight spots 90 degree to lay.
Truck works way better then a $3000 GRCS in my opinion.

All depends on the tree/situation but I agree, I'll pull a tree that can be pulled with a pick-up anyday with a pick-up. I've pulled trees over with heavy yarder rigging/cats/skidders/you name it. Generally your pulling device cannot be to big, but figuring the force that's applied is a feel that some have and many do not. I don't hesitate to pull a tree over with the mini a pick-up or even the bucket truck a few times. Mess around forever with rigging or hook up and put it down. Limiting yourself to one way or the other is simply that, limiting.
 
I go with "the right tool for the job" adage.

Some good discussion here. I remember a video Jerry B. made a while back of shock loading a GRCS with a VW [or was it a Volvo?] falling out of a tree. The setup was almost indestructable. Impressed me.
I agree with "the right tool " adage, I was just trying to express my differences starting with my z-rig experience then moving onto the Goods.

It just seems in all my years I have never been stumped removing a residential tree with just the basic equipment.
 
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  • #34
Well, a lot of the sites I work on there is NO access for a truck, so there has to be an alternative, Z rig is quick and efficient.
All the debris from this last job was going in the bushes, so no point bringing machinery anyway.
 
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  • #36
View attachment 43728View attachment 43729
Here's my 5:1 z rig setup I bought last year. Really fancy Petzl pulleys and very expensive, around $350 thru Sherrills [rope not included].
To be honest I like it, but have only used it once. It's great if you have a crew to pull on it, but seeing I work solo I use my Masdaam puller, or better yet my truck in 4X4 Lo range.

Anyone interested I'll sell them cheap, minus the rope.


Like' em, PM sent...
 
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  • #38
My thread, no machines allowed, whatcha gonna do?
 
I specialize in no access for equipment or no equipment allowed jobs Murph. Pay attention please. WHat may work for you may often not work for someone else ......
 
My z-rig setup is 2 carabiners and a sling. Sling the anchor tree, hang a biner on it, then slip knot the pull rope and hang a biner on it. Anchor rope goes through first carabiner, then the second. Bada-bing.
 
I am usually in the no access camp, too. We just barely, barely got my chipper into and out of the backyard on the job we did yesterday/ today. We had about one inch on either side to back the chipper in, then got up close to a tree, so had to use my new Simpson capstan to winch it into position. Not an easy positioning. Due to the uneven ground and the play in the pintle ring, it took us about 20 minutes to get the chipper back out without damage, with 1/4 in to spare on the one side.

A progress capture is a good idea on MA systems in some situations. Today, I had a top sit back, toward the house, no wedge to keep the kerf open, and I'd already pulled my saw out, so it sat way back. Erik was pulling it over when he found a ground nest of yellow jackets. Worked out in the end, as I'd left a big crotch that I used to catch the top (regrown top on a topped doug-fir). I didn't expect to be rigging it down. Burned, yes smoke, down though some bark and wood, even with crash landing it 80 feet.
 
I am usually in the no access camp, too. We just barely, barely got my chipper into and out of the backyard on the job we did yesterday/ today. We had about one inch on either side to back the chipper in, then got up close to a tree, so had to use my new Simpson capstan to winch it into position. Not an easy positioning. Due to the uneven ground and the play in the pintle ring, it took us about 20 minutes to get the chipper back out without damage, with 1/4 in to spare on the one side.

A progress capture is a good idea on MA systems in some situations. Today, I had a top sit back, toward the house, no wedge to keep the kerf open, and I'd already pulled my saw out, so it sat way back. Erik was pulling it over when he found a ground nest of yellow jackets. Worked out in the end, as I'd left a big crotch that I used to catch the top (regrown top on a topped doug-fir). I didn't expect to be rigging it down. Burned, yes smoke, down though some bark and wood, even with crash landing it 80 feet.
 
It didn't burn the rope, I don't think unless I missed it, just a puff of smoke at the crotch. A new tree-master 3 strand, takes Lots of natural crotch abuse, cheap, and doesn't soak up water like other ropes, so it stays much lighter in the rainy season. Fits right into the Maasdam continuous rope puller.

The top actually sat there for a while, until Erik got settled after the wasps. I just did a little rope positioning and slight wrapping hoping to have enough friction to slow it down and spear the top in to the ground if it let go while he was getting settled. It had a strong hinge on it, so I didn't worry much, but by the time it was 'go' time, it had started to split vertically a bit. Luckily it was Doug-fir, so strong and tough. I wouldn't have wanted to try to catch that one myself. Just made sure that it couldn't somehow snag my lanyard or climbline, and hoped for the best. Top was probably 9" x 20-some feet. Guess I've been living right.
 
I specialize in no access for equipment or no equipment allowed jobs Murph. Pay attention please. WHat may work for you may often not work for someone else ......

While Stephen has restricted acces for geological reasons ( I've seen the place he works, and while stunningly beautiful, it is some hard terrain) we in the old world have to work in the little space left between buildings in cities and towns that have been growing up over millenia with no over all architectural planning. There are still places in old towns here, where one can't get a US size pick up truck through the streets.
The big chippers that roam the States are almost never seem here. If we used them, we'd end up dragging the brush way too far, because the chipper would be stuck between houses.
The " Is the GRCS worth the money" and " I hardly ever use speedlines" discussions stem from the same thing, I believe.
If you work in wide open American suburban areas, your take on both will be radically different from that of an European arbo having to squeeze branches and trees down between buildings.
Skid steers and material handlers are rarely seem here for the same reason, and when I have a job that is an obvious candidate for a crane, there is usually no room for the crane.

Back to original topic, I don't use a Z-rig much, since our small 800 kilogramme Tirfor is so easy to use. It sits in a medium size backpack, so it is easy to get to the tree, unpacks and packs as fast as a Z-rig, so.........................!
 
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