Which would you trust most . . .
- Thread starter tpcollins
- Start date
- Replies 24
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flushcut
TreeHouser
I think they are a horse a piece.
L
Levi
Guest
Toss up
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Heres the thing... IF you follow the manufacturers directions on a splice, don't screw it up or cut corners, AND you are able to finish it, its good. If you cheat, do it wrong, don't use instructions its just like an incorrectly tied knot, it won't hold.
Science says that the splice will hold over the figure 8 every time and I agree. Truth is if you are involved in an incident that approaches the force necessary to break a rope with either termination you won't live to tell anyway.
For me I would trust the splice, its permanent. For you, if you are questioning it, maybe the knot since its easily inspect-able and doesn't carry any doubt.
Science says that the splice will hold over the figure 8 every time and I agree. Truth is if you are involved in an incident that approaches the force necessary to break a rope with either termination you won't live to tell anyway.
For me I would trust the splice, its permanent. For you, if you are questioning it, maybe the knot since its easily inspect-able and doesn't carry any doubt.
L
Levi
Guest
Nick,
the reason it is a toss up for me is that yes the splice will hold longer but there is that big "if" whereas with the knot you can see it all right there and there is no "if"
I love splices but to be honest, even after following instructions to a T there is always a TINY bit of doubt in my mind.
the reason it is a toss up for me is that yes the splice will hold longer but there is that big "if" whereas with the knot you can see it all right there and there is no "if"
I love splices but to be honest, even after following instructions to a T there is always a TINY bit of doubt in my mind.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Welcome to the TreeHouse, Levi. My name's Butch.
How did you find us?
How did you find us?
emr
Cheesehead Treehouser
tp... what do you trust?
Ill trust either. The more that you know and understand about all of your gear, the more comfortable you feel. No matter if your talking splice vs knot whatever. The key is knowing how and why knots hold you as well as how and why splices work.
Ill trust either. The more that you know and understand about all of your gear, the more comfortable you feel. No matter if your talking splice vs knot whatever. The key is knowing how and why knots hold you as well as how and why splices work.
L
Levi
Guest
Hi Butch. I had an account last spring, I'm back. Can't remember how I found ya'll...
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #10
That's where I'm at, I'm confident in my abilities to follow instructions but like bonner1040, being able to see it would be peace of mind for me. In a spliced eye, I'd probably still want to run a zillion threads thru it with a carpet needle and then hold that together with some heat shrink. I think inspecting the knot on occasions will keep me happy . . .
colin-roberts
Young Arborist
It's hard to get away from Splices, I trust my splices figure its low on my risk level.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #12
Actually I'd like to try making eye splices with the Sterling 7/16" HTP static kern mantle rope but I can't seem to find any two methods that agree - one starts with the tag end at 28", another uses 30 times the diameter which for 7/16" would be 13 1/8", and the third is 2 times the 9 1/2" fid length for 19". Any direction here would be appreciated, thanks.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
HTP is NON-Spliceable. Dont try, it wont work.
flushcut
TreeHouser
Whipping and lock stitching is only there to hold the splice in place under low or no load like getting rolled around in a rope bag in the back of a truck. Check out the sewn eyes on the market Grizzly for example. When I first started splicing I started with rigging lines to field test my splice and figured if they held up to that they would be good to go for life support.
I do like the fact you can inspect a knot every time it is tied, dressed, and set but I look at the splice before and after use each day for signs of slipping and deformity.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #15
Thanks bonner1040, so when treestuff.com offers "sewn eyes" in the HTP, that's not exactly a DIY procedure I guess - I guess I'll use the figure 8 then!
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=491
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=491
mardenm
TreeHouser
Interesting that Sterling Rope does not appear to provide any information regarding rope splicing anywhere on their web site...
Reddog
TreeHouser
Correct Sewn eye are done in a industrial bar tacking machine. I don't think a human could hand sew that tight.
NickfromWI
King of Splices
It makes sense. Their ropes just aren't designed to be hand spliced. In fact- most of what we think of as kernmantles (HTP, dynamic climbing lines, "static" ropes") are not spliceable. I'm surprised we don't see splices infiltrating into the rock climbing world. Whenever I show rock climbers my ropes, they are jealous. Fig8 is clunky, splice is sexy.
That being said, it doesn't mean that you couldn't create some sort of a splice in these "kernmantle" ropes. I've done it and tested them against the 8 on a bight and they do fine. Not great- but fine. If the demand was there, a perfect technique could be created.
Which would I trust more? The knot or the splice: it's a same. I'd trust the shitty knot as little as a shitty splice. More important than knowing how to splice: knowing how to look at a splice and know it is legit.
And as a side note, the term kernmantle is usually misunderstood. Kern = core. Mantle = cover. Every double braid is a kernmantle rope. It has a cover and a core, but most people would agree that stable braid and double esterlon are NOT kernmantles.
Anyway. I'm rambling.
Neat topic.
The real answer is "why would you use a giant figure 8 knot if you could have the lovely splice?"
love
nick
McGuarantee
TreeHouser
Hey Nick, have you ever tried a sewn eye splice yourself? I'm in Atlanta at TCI for a course and I met Walter (dogwood) don't know his last name, very nice guy, and he has been experimenting with sewn eye splices. He seems to have good success with them. He does them by hand with a speedy stitcher. I'm interested in it to make foot loops for recreational climbing...just looks a little bit labor intensive. He said one took him about 2-3 hours
I don't think anyone can do exactly what the industrial bartacking machine does by hand. However, A sufficient number of properly placed stitches with proper thread will make a bull strong termination.....Though probably not a "certifiable" one. I suspect that a lot of people don't know that once upon a time whipped eyes were considered an appropriate termination for some marine applications (but never as "shipshape" as a spliced eye).
candoarms
TreeHouser
I prefer a good knot. As the rope wears from use, I'm able to cut off the bad end and continue using it with complete confidence that a reliable knot will always be available to me. I guess I could also put another spliced eye in the end of the rope, but it's time consuming and not necessary. A good knot is easy to tie and makes it possible to switch out the working ends of the rope for longer life.
Joel
Joel
Raj
TreeHouser
Splices for the hitch climber set up DdRT, knots on the anchor for SRWP.... unless I've used the entire rope then the spliced end is used on the anchor. Trust them both.
Tim_B.
TreeHouser
Thanks for the tip about learning to splice by starting with the rigging ropes. I have it in the back of my mind to try this stuff some day soon. I like the idea of starting with less critical uses for the finished products, and slowly learning that you can trust your own splices.
Tim
bstewert
TreeHouser
Burnham
Woods walker
Agreed, completely.
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