Training new climbers —old skool.

[Szajer]

Since I started tree care, 1988 part time groundie, then 1990 full time climber-- I was taught as my primary climbing knot the taught line hitch. I had used this until 1993 where I graduated to a split tail -with a micro pulley to tend a Blake's hitch. It was an awesome step forward in an industry that was quickly changing due to trickle down tech from the mountain and rock climbing community.
Now -those knots are no more than relics, from decades of progression.

But what about the rookies of today? Should we simply forget these techniques and go straight to the SRT -with a saddle in full regalia of ascending gear, lanyards, pulleys, snaps?

Or would it be wise to train with the basics --such as the taught line DRT as the main climbing system?

One thing I'll say good about old school knots, especially the taught line, is that it's easily tide with only one hand —and could even be done properly with eyes closed.

Should all the tech gadgets be reserved for year one under the belt? Or is the new way -the only way, to train for maximizing time and efficiency....

 

[Grendel]

Speaking only for myself, I did well with the progression. Blakes closed system, to Distel w/ a HC, Rope Walking the Tail, to full on SRT.

 

[flushcut]

Should drivers ed be taught with a model T?
Sure teaching noobs the basics is good but to what end.

 

[Tucker943]

Yes, they should be introduced to simple basics. Crawl before you walk.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Kmatrees]

Im kind of embarrased to say but, I was taught that way, and still climb that way. Not because I am not interested in the new school, but I always get it done this way and never had anyone really show me the "ropes" so to speak. Im getting old and pretty fat so if I can extend my climbing career a few extra years Im all in. Just what I see from guys on the net I like and think I know what to do, but with the dizzying array of stuff for sale out there Im a little unsure of what to try. I have always remembered what I learned early on that you should be able to tie in with eyes shut one handed! Not to say the new school climbing techniques aren't waaaay better and more efficient but there is something to be said for simplicity.

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[MasterBlaster]

You can be an old climber and you can be a fat climber, but you can't be an old, fat climber. That's just axing for trouble.

 

[emr]

Knowing how to make a climbing system with nothing more than rope and a biner is a must. It just makes sense to know how to do that. On Friday I was deadwooding a super sprawly oak SRT and needed a second tip for access to one specific leader. My partner was in the tree with me so no ground person. I had a spare biner (only 1) so I tossed the tail of my line over a branch then tied a clove hitch to the biner followed by a Blakes hitch. Easy and functional.

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[rumination]

What emr said. I agree 100%. Any time I teach a new climber I start them on a Blake's hitch. The moment I feel they've got it down I'll move them on to something else.

 

[Jomo]

I don't doubt one of you guys can tie Blake's with one hand, but green beginners?

I know I been at it awhile an bout the only friction hitch I can tie blindfolded with one hand's a tautline hitch, preferably with just three fingers.

Arms do get disabled for a variety of reasons in this biz IMO.

Jomo

 

[stig]

I always start my logging apprentices out with the basics.
So for the first year I insist they use a stone axe for felling............................................................














I start new climbers out with the gear and tecniques I expect them to use henceforth.
Why would you need to be able to tie a Blake's onehanded or indeed at all.
I teach them a Münter's hitch so they'll always have a way to get out of trees, that is about it.
No need to fill your brain up with all kind of antiquated junk, you won't need anyway.

 

[Altissimus]

So THAT'S what my brain is full of.... knew it was something

 

[Fiddler]

I'm guessing most of us here could tie in with only a rope if necessary -- What would I need the carabiner for? Maybe a rope bridge saddle w/no D rings?


Question: if one uses strictly modern techniques and needs to double-crotch for some reason do they use a complete second set of modern devices for the second crotch? I have run across something called an "M" configuration in the past - is this the modern equivalent of double-crotching?

Can you tell I'm a bit antiquated?

 

[wiley_p]

I always start my logging apprentices out with the basics.
So for the first year I insist they use a stone axe for felling............................................................














I start new climbers out with the gear and tecniques I expect them to use henceforth.
Why would you need to be able to tie a Blake's onehanded or indeed at all.
I teach them a Münter's hitch so they'll always have a way to get out of trees, that is about it.
No need to fill your brain up with all kind of antiquated junk, you won't need anyway.

The Dane and I share the same training philosophy.

 

[pantheraba]

Working yesterday in an oak leaning over my house I had to use my rigging line to get back to my tie-in / lifeline tree. I tied a TAUT line hitch and DRT'd back to my TIP tree...otherwise it would have been a 15 feet swing into the sweetgum trunk...no thanks.

Once I had to make a swiss seat and DRT system out of one rope to get a job done...needed a safety inside a warehouse, only one rope available. Kind of messy but it worked.

The basics are good for backups and emergencies.

 

[kevin bingham]

For me the basics would be how to use a Munter hitch. That was what i learned first. And always a good way to come down from a high place. A Blake's hitch is a must to know as well and one of the first things I would teach along with a munter. but I would never ask a beginner to work a tree ddrt with a blakes especially if I had to pay him for it.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Used a blakes for a quick make shift spider balance rig over a house yesterday. I asked for two dead eyes and got a small hank of rope that was a tad long for my purposes. So made do.
Basics have their place. Good to know the roots of the trade as well as the modern. Tools in the kit

 

[Raj]

My first rope work was a swiss seat, a beat up old biner and some 5/8's three strand leaping off the skids of a huey. Looking back, it would have been nice for some more detailed instructions, but I guess it comes down to economics. In my opinion, I'd prefer to know that someone can handle themselves if all they had was a single length of rope, but I understand the concept of cost and time to train someone from the basics upwards, however if a capable climber could be just instructed on a certain technique and preform..... that's all right as well..... personally, I like learning from the basics and onward. (and the reason why I'm on this site)

 

[Tucker943]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with climbing DDRT on a tautline. There are smoother set ups out there, but I've made a fine living on hanks oh HiVee and a tautline. Ive upgraded of course, but never look back and say "Oh the money I lost because of my choice of hitch......"

 

[Szajer]

"Oh the money I lost because of my choice of hitch......"

Absolutely.

I competed against the best using those knots. And to be honest, was even quicker then. Though I'm not giving up my hitch climber anytime soon.

 

[kevin bingham]

I do regret all the money I lost and energy wasted. If I could only get it back

 

[Husabud]

I haven't had to teach a climber; yet. When I do, he/she will learn basic knots and hitches in leu of what they will be climbing with. I know of at least one occasion where a new climber cut his life line and the hitch system hit the ground. That is the time when knowing how to tie a knot matters. Nobody wants to ride a suicide knot to the ground.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

What about a bunchaknots hitch. I guess a predecessor of mine wanted to use it. A bunch of half-hitches for descent. I bet it didn't advance for much, but evidently worked. It was in the era of spikes up, bunchaknots down.

 

[Altissimus]

Okay. , kinda can't believe this took me so long. Problem here is the thread title, is it a matter of training new tree climbers or training tree workers. Gerry B mentions that training someone to climb a tree is a fairly simple process, training someone to actually work in the tree is different. Mechanicals are cool and I use them but only after the progression from Tautline Double and on...having a good basic knot selection down pat is a must! ...why? ...because of the rigging skills needed....even if everything was slings and Carabiners

 

[SeanKroll]

@davidwyby

didn't read this, but its surely got some gems