Tip die back

[Treeaddict]

Is tip die back always an indicator of an issue. I don’t have any specific tree in mind necessarily so no pics. Just a general question. What if it’s a few limbs dying back and the rest are healthy. What kind of problems might the tree be experiencing? Thank you for feeding my brain.

 

[flushcut]

Stress of some kind. Trees in general do not reflect stressors right away it takes a year or three.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

The tips have usually the most active growth/activity. But when a tree struggles to find enougth water for its leaves' needs, it supplies first the easiest parts and restricts or even abandones those which are harder to reach. The tips need more energy to pump the water to them than the lower and more central limbs. So, in case of a severe drought, a root or a trunk disease, the tree reduces its sail to survive, continuing to live at a lower cost in a reduced structure. It will be always time later (maybe) when the tree overcomes the harsh conditions, to start again its growth from below and instal the replacement tips.
If the dieback affects just a limb, it's the same problem but more located, just specific to the limb or part of the vascular system supplying it.
The tree itself starves a limb if it doesn't match the production requirements. It does that all the time with the shaded limbs and we see frequently these partially dead limbs inside the crown.

 

[TINYHULK]

I heard that rip die back was an indicator of the root system dying. Accurate or much more to it?

 

[TINYHULK]

I was driving through a neighborhood the other day and pretty much every single tree in the neighborhood except the pine trees were experiencing too die back at the highest points. Most weren’t higher than 60ft and the neighborhood was well over 50 years old so new construction isn’t an issue

 

[Treeaddict]

Matt, I’ve heard the root issue as well. There’s probably a 500 page book that could be written on the tip die back phenomenon I suppose?

Was there many different species exhibiting dieback in the neighborhood? We’re they all between the sidewalks and street

Could have been a planting issue - root bound and planted without butterflying?

 

[Marc-Antoine]

If the tips are dying, you can bet that the roots are dying too, but which one was the first problem?
The tips being lost, that means a short supply of food for the whole tree, both by the lack of production by these said tips and by the overall less than ideal condition of the tree. The roots are particularely impacted because they rely entierely on the food supply from the crown. So if the roots can't work for what ever reason, the water supply drops, the crown can't no longer work, then dyes, at least partially, the food supply drops, the roots starve and dye too, the situation worsens for the crown and so on. Whatever condition able to pushes the tree in one of these this circle's steps is a good candidate. It can be drought, diseases, parasitic fungi, boring or sipping bugs, mechanical problem (girlding root, big bark damage, strangulation, fire...).
As a side note, a weakening factor can induce a more serious one, like the drought maims the tree then the bugs and parasitic fungi strike (as in "oh, look at this restaurant newly opened!").

 

[BeerGeek]

Food supply for trees also relies on water, which has been very scarce the last month or so in this region. My potted Maples (Red & Sugar) are having their leaves die off already due to lack of rain. They'll be transplanted to the new homestead, but are a bit dicey right now.

 

[TINYHULK]

Yeah it’s different species. I saw multiple different oaks and maples. Some pines seemed to have excessive limb decay but all of them were centered in front yards with grass growing well around most of them. When is tip die back considered excessive and probably cause for removing the tree?

 

[Treeaddict]

I wanna know the answer to Matt’s question too!!

 

[SeanKroll]

Why remove a tip- dieback tree?

If there are structural problems, that's different.

Pictures! Pictures! Pictures!

If only people could carry a camera around with them!

 

[friedrich]

on some trees it is a normal thing to happen as the tree reduces itself to its "elderly crown". for example 800 year old oaks with a huge stumps full of cavaties with a tiny canopy. propably roots will also die back but in the case of "tree elderlies" it might not be a problem!?

on the other hand a birch tree with tip die back will not live that long

 

[TINYHULK]

Sean I just didn’t know when/how tip die back could be an indicator of a root system failing and the tree becoming a hazard. I’m a pretty good climber but I’m still learning my tree anatomy. When I was told tip die back is a sign of root decay, that imposes fear and a safety concern to me. I don’t want to tell customers that a tree needs to come down based on that naive knowledge just to get a sale.

 

[SeanKroll]

All sorts of things to consider: heat waves and reflected heat, cold snaps, sidewalk replacement, poor planting, soil compaction, soil pH, bugs, fungi, bacteria, a concentration of inclusions that pinch of vascular flow on a leader, chemical damage (a customer's water filter discharged something that caused his maple to lose most of the lraved one year).

Think about what destroys wood stability, and the time frame.

Some dead trees are strong and stable for a long time. Some live trees are weak and unstable.

Keep looking, feeling, smelling, listening, asking and posting pictures!

Try to think like a tree.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Some dead trees are strong and stable for a long time. Some live trees are weak and unstable.

It's very dependent of the tree's specie AND the specie of the agressor/ decomposer at the task. Some dead wood can stay for years and years even on weak wood like poplar. On the other side, a very strong tree like a hornbeam with a dense an fibrous wood (prone to dieback from the drought) can shed down 4" tops in only 2 years after dying, as I wihtnessed at my parent's home. Some fungi can make a tree falls apart or uproots even with a nice healthy crown.
In case of a dieback, don't rush to clean it if you have the choice. Wait 2-3 years to see how the tree behaves. Will she overcome the problem and recover, or be sent to a downing slope. It doesn't worth to clean thoroughly the crown if it ends to a removal. In the best case of a recover, wait too to see which plan is set by the tree, because at first, you don't know what she will choose to keep alive and where she will invest for the new growth. The behaviour of the dead limbs or the sturdyness of the living parts have to be considered too. Some fungi spread quickly inside the still living parts and weaken them too much to keep them (some harms look like a sunburn starting from the dead part all along the living limb until the next axis).

 

[TINYHULK]

Thank you all for the advice! What I learned here is that I need to learn more and “become the tree” 🌲 🌳 😁

 

[SkwerI]

Sean I just didn’t know when/how tip die back could be an indicator of a root system failing and the tree becoming a hazard. I’m a pretty good climber but I’m still learning my tree anatomy. When I was told tip die back is a sign of root decay, that imposes fear and a safety concern to me. I don’t want to tell customers that a tree needs to come down based on that naive knowledge just to get a sale.

This is the type of observation that will lead to much greater understanding and knowledge in the future. All of the best tree men learned the majority of their knowledge by observing and remembering. I also had many similar questions when I started climbing, but there was no internet then. By the time I discovered the internet I was already in my 30s but my knowledge increased by leaps and bounds thanks to groups like Arboristsite (and then the Treehouse once Arboristsite turned to crap).
Pay attention to every tree you climb. They all will teach you something. Strong, weak, healthy, dying. Often it is hard to put into words the subtle clues the tree exhibits but you pick up on them and know if the tree is strong or weak.

 

[stig]

Actually the simple answer to your question is: yes!

 

[TINYHULK]

For profit? I agree stig lol. For integrity and liability purposes? I must know more. Thank you all for the help!

 

[davidwyby]

Lots of big eucs around here have quite a bit of dead limbs scattered through them.

 

[BlackSmith]

“liability purposes”

?