subdominating
- Thread starter sotc
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treelooker
Treehouser
Good job on the pics. The pruning specs seem reasonable to me. Should be a one-time subordination treatment, fixing the codominant problem in that high-target area.
treelooker
Treehouser
i dunno, tc. 3 main stems seems like too many.
what do the forks look like? That will tell whether the pruning would be done for structure or aesthetics.
what do the forks look like? That will tell whether the pruning would be done for structure or aesthetics.
Old Monkey
Treehouser
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Guy has more book learning than me, but my gut says leave it alone like Teresa says.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
aestheticly id say leave it alone. it will look ugly when its done. ill try and remember this thread and take a pic after its done. wont know who gets the job till i think dec 7. probably wont be me but thats ok, i dont want it for what it usually goes for
NickfromWI
King of Splices
From the pic- I agree with sotc. If looks were the concern, leave it alone. It looks fine the way it is.
If it were my tree, I'd be happy to subordinate the 2 you marked in yellow. Makes sense.
love
nick
If it were my tree, I'd be happy to subordinate the 2 you marked in yellow. Makes sense.
love
nick
NickfromWI
King of Splices
I think the big difference is here you are topping part of the tree so another part of the tree can take over/resume dominance in the tree. Theoretically, and more so on small trees, this can lead to a BETTER structure with a stronger canopy, whereas topping does the opposite.
love
nick
love
nick
treelooker
Treehouser
For how long? In tree time, it will fill the holes made by the reduction cuts.
That's not books talking, it's just looking at the tree with the tree's own chronological perspective.
The need to subordinate this thing is not great, unless the forks are defective. So I am not arguing with the "leave it alone" approach, just looking ahead 20 years to a big storm and risk of splitting. This is also how the muni guy who wrote the specs looks at the tree, not how it will look tomorrow.
Old Monkey
Treehouser
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Species and size, make me say leave it alone but those trees may behave differently in Oregon. I don't think subordinating would hurt it or make it look bad for very long.
Guy, I was sold on subordinating by one of the city arborists. He took pictures of trees that he subordinated over time. It made for a very informative slide show. Has anyone done any time lapse movies of trees growing? I think that would be helpful to see.
Guy, I was sold on subordinating by one of the city arborists. He took pictures of trees that he subordinated over time. It made for a very informative slide show. Has anyone done any time lapse movies of trees growing? I think that would be helpful to see.
treelooker
Treehouser
Joe up the road from me thinks thinning is very often better. I disagree. Here's his study:
http://www1.brcc.edu/murray/research/subordination/default.htm
http://www1.brcc.edu/murray/research/subordination/default.htm
M
Mike Maas
Guest
Colorado spruce rarely make narrow crotches from my observation, and they are so thick that the branches become intertwined.
I guarantee it will be a huge task to pull the tops off the tree once they are cut. You will have to do multiple cuts just to get them apart.
Gilman came to our WAA meeting and presented his notion of crown reduction a few years back, and as an actual practitioner of tree work, everything he said was like arborist 101, very simple.
Then he started putting up pictures and asking audience members (mostly isa certified) where to cut and it was a real eye opener because it went right over many of their heads. Many of them never really put any time out in the field doing pruning, other than some work they did in collage on 6" and under nursery trees.
This spruce is an example of what I'm saying. If you never climbed and cut a spruce, you would think the codominance might be a problem.
I would have the person who made the call, come and pull on the rope after you make the cut. After he sees it won't come apart, next time he might make a different call.
I guarantee it will be a huge task to pull the tops off the tree once they are cut. You will have to do multiple cuts just to get them apart.
Gilman came to our WAA meeting and presented his notion of crown reduction a few years back, and as an actual practitioner of tree work, everything he said was like arborist 101, very simple.
Then he started putting up pictures and asking audience members (mostly isa certified) where to cut and it was a real eye opener because it went right over many of their heads. Many of them never really put any time out in the field doing pruning, other than some work they did in collage on 6" and under nursery trees.
This spruce is an example of what I'm saying. If you never climbed and cut a spruce, you would think the codominance might be a problem.
I would have the person who made the call, come and pull on the rope after you make the cut. After he sees it won't come apart, next time he might make a different call.
treelooker
Treehouser
Ha! Sounds like a much-needed type of session for those in attendance. If they don't keep one foot in the field they can lose touch in a hurry.
Yes much to be said for trees supporting themselves by intertwining branches.
M
Mike Maas
Guest
Thanks Scott. One thing should be noted, that's my location. Our Colorado Spruce are great trees, short trem. We have a canker that kills them fairly early in life, about the time they get to be 30 or 40 years old.
So I don't see a lot of mature CS.
I hope you still get a chance to post a picture of the subordination of the codomination, or the subdominating as you called it.
So I don't see a lot of mature CS.
I hope you still get a chance to post a picture of the subordination of the codomination, or the subdominating as you called it.
I have seen at least 3 codominant spruce lose one part in the past 10 years. In all cases it missed everything important, but they had very little intertwining, mostly just two side by side trees, shaded so much in the center that nothing was there after half the top fell out.
I am not saying that it does not happen, just rarely in ND. Of course up here american elm is brittle. You can not get it to hinge around the tree anything like a branch will in Il or OH. They almost never rip down the tree if you want them to on a removal. I think it is the difference in amount of moisture they get that affects the way the cells develop. But again that is just a guess. I know the response is different.
I have had good luck with subordination type cuts, including some I accidently did in IL back in the 70's. I would not take out any more than what was indicated in the photo with the lines added. In this type of tree I don't believe it takes much to give one side dominance.
My thoughts.
I am not saying that it does not happen, just rarely in ND. Of course up here american elm is brittle. You can not get it to hinge around the tree anything like a branch will in Il or OH. They almost never rip down the tree if you want them to on a removal. I think it is the difference in amount of moisture they get that affects the way the cells develop. But again that is just a guess. I know the response is different.
I have had good luck with subordination type cuts, including some I accidently did in IL back in the 70's. I would not take out any more than what was indicated in the photo with the lines added. In this type of tree I don't believe it takes much to give one side dominance.
My thoughts.
brendonv
Tree Hugger
Great job from what I know.
Are you going to gradually reduce that one limb? If not, seems like down the road there will be some included bark.
Looking at that pic makes me miss working at my old job, his clientel were from 20 yrs and all we did was pruning. I miss pruning everyday
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Are you going to gradually reduce that one limb? If not, seems like down the road there will be some included bark.
Looking at that pic makes me miss working at my old job, his clientel were from 20 yrs and all we did was pruning. I miss pruning everyday
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SkwerI
Treehouser
Willie, why does that tree still have old support sticks tied to the trunk? Are the roots broken? I've never understood why people insist on tying up their trees to support sticks and leaving them tied up for years on end.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #49
hes left them in the ground and recently retied them. i told him they werent doing much any more and just to get rid of them when it dries out in the spring. one limb has grown through the tie, i removed that limb after the pic was taken, its the lowest horizntal limb on the left
treelooker
Treehouser
On the left lead that you subordinated, it looks like the tip still interfered with the main lead. Maybe the photo shows it more crowded than it really is, maybe not. If so, i would snip back that tip just to avoid contact in a moderate wind.
Nice pics, good looking work.
Nice pics, good looking work.
