Silver Maple Trim

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I've seen plenty of hollow silver maples around here as described above and others ( up to 48" DBH)that didn't have a bit of decay. THE DIFFEENCE was only one thing... the way they had been pruned in the past. When the collar is violated on a silver maple, the entire existing stem will rot out, while the tree puts on new growth around it. So improper pruning will lead to the premature death of that tree. NO question about it. Even if a perfect target cut is made on that large a limb, there is no way that a silver maple will compartmentalize the decay... its going to go hollow, and often very quickly (in tree time).
 
Most do get hollow .The largest I ever worked on was 54 " diameter .On that one I cut right through a nest of hybernating bats and they they went helter skelter into a snow bank .Mice with wings so to speak .
 
Going back to the rigging, you might consider butt tying more of those pieces. The tip tie is a little less shocky but pieces can rotate on you (especially doglegs and forks). It can be super fast, enough to decapitate a climber. The bigger the piece the faster the whip, if you ever have it happen and it misses, you'll never forget the sound.

My alternative is to butt tie and have the groundie run the piece all the way to the dirt on the inital fall, the groundie needs good timing though. If it can't go to the ground in one run I tagline it.

I agree about the silver not being able to seal a large wound but that doesn't mean it does nothing. The tree still has defenses, you'll just never see a CODIT wall 4 on that wound. Arborists, in a sense are mediators between humans and trees. Most of the time we're paid to favor the humans (since trees are pretty much always broke)... by letting more light into their gardens and stuff. That means some urban trees are gonna have big chainsaw wounds. Recently I've started leaving more stub on big cuts on older trees just to give the tree some time to work it's defenses before the BPZ is exposed.
 
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I love having this resource and discussion forum for this work. Reading this and other threads has alredy changed my thinking on my own pruning practice. I will be doing another silver maple trim on Thursday and thinking about this thread.

Reduction cuts rather than removal cuts when coming off of the trunk;).
 
.... Recently I've started leaving more stub on big cuts on older trees just to give the tree some time to work it's defenses before the BPZ is exposed.

I tend to agree, I have seen several old trees with what we would consider long stubs on large limbs, cut stubs, not natural ones...the end is punky, but when cut back to the BBR/Collar, the wood is sound...so what is the old tree telling us?
Then other shorter stubs that are rotten and nasty all the way into the trunk...
It pays to keep your eyes open and learn from the trees!
 
Young silvers can manage but I agree with you on older trees.

Reading this, I'm reminded of a particularly insightful post once made by our old friend Mike Maas:

Frans, you edited your post but here’s a response anyway:

You and Guy have the same theories about trees, I see, and on paper they may look good to some arborists (probably most). The problem is that trees are living organisms; they are not simply wooden structures.

Sure, if you took some weight off the end the tip would be lighter, and a long light branch, is better than a long heavy branch. This is true if the branch is a beam of dead wood, but it's not.

Let's think about the differences for a moment. A living branch develops it's size, shape and cell structure based on it's weight and movement. Open your mind way up for a second. Wouldn't it be better to add weight and increase movement to make the limb stronger?

Follow me on this now. All that stuff you want to do to the root zone, is any of it going to add more sugars to the tree? No, not until it promotes more leaf growth, but you're up there cutting leaves off.

Each little scar is going to need fixing by the tree. It takes huge amounts of stored resources to compartmentalize the wounds. At the same time, the hormones that signal the tree to start these repairs, also signal insects that there is a tree in stress, "LUNCH!" The end result is often more leaf loss and possibly other insect damage to the tree.

What happens to the roots that were servicing those parts of the tree you remove? They die! Now all this is ok because you made the limb stronger, or did you?
What will the new lighter branch do as far as adding circumference in years to come? It will abandon strengthening and spend its money (photosynthates) replacing the end you cut off. Growth will be accelerated because when you tipped it back you remove apical meristems, which are the source of a hormone called Auxin. Growth at the area you cut back will be accelerated until the tips are replaced and then those new tips will signal the growth to slow back down.

The tree is not back in equilibrium though. Now the tip is bigger, because the parts you removed have grown back, and at the same time the other tips have gotten bigger. Do you remember what the cells did back along the branch? That's right, they haven't been adding strength as fast as they would have if you never did the cutting!

One other factors are a dead tree, wooden swing set, or any other wood structure that's different from a living tree, is a ratio between leaves and total biomass.
The leaves of a tree make the food the tree uses. This food is used throughout the tree all the way down to the root caps at the very smallest root end, perhaps hundreds of feet away. You see, roots don't make food.

Anyway, when a tree reaches maturity, it’s in a state of very low leaf to total biomass ratio. It's just balancing there. Once that ratio tips past a certain point, the spiral of death begins, and in time the tree dies.

With a young tree, you can cut the whole tree down and it might grow back. The tree in the picture might only be able to stand 15% crown loss. These are just a few of the reasons I cringe when I hear crown reduction, especially on a mature tree.

In regard to dose, I just think a little crown reduction is bad, a moderate crown reduction is very bad, and a large crown reduction is just a staged removal.
 
I wonder what our old friend is up to. I sure hope he's OK, considering what de Baby Jesus has chosen to lay on him.
 
In that way trees are just like old folks and the saying, "set in their ways".
The older folks get the less we can expect to change them without causing harm.
 
There are very few absolutes I believe in that cannot be either understood through a different lens or discarded altogether, but that certainly is food for thought. That is an altruistic, rhetorical argument. One major issue, which seems to be neglected largely in most literature regarding trees is exemplified in kikori's dealings with his client, and I'm sure most all of us have dealt with it in the past. The issue is the client's knowledge and understanding of tree processes. This knowledge and understanding can be influenced by myriad sources, and is almost certainly the cause of a great deal of poor management practice. But, it can begin as early as the tree is planted; consider any wrong tree/wrong place scenarios one has encountered in one's career. When a client approaches an arborist, there is already an expectation of the quality or of the exact service which will be performed. This can put us as sales and certainly as field arborists in a pickle in regards to the management plan we are capable of putting forth, and budget of the client plays a huge role here as well. I would argue that the knowledge of the client dooms far more trees than the saws of the arborist (but perhaps this is me being altruistic).

With regards to the actual practice of endweight or height reduction. I always consider that the trees we deal with are not the fine forest form to which their genetics have been tuned, and generally grow in a way that requires the attention of an arborist in order to first assess the risk and then take action in mitigating said risk. I agree with certain points in the argument above, but I feel myself resisting the altruism inherent within. Yes, certainly, I would much rather let a tree be a tree, but in order for me to do so, I would have to let that tree be a tree in a forest, this is where trees belong and where there is no risk of damage if and when limbs fail. The trees I deal with are generally open grown (or in a small grove/row), urban trees which already suffer from unique urban stresses and poor branch and root structure due to the lack of competition and support from other trees, as well as the lack of space in which to develop. They almost universally suffer from the lack of organic layer to both shelter the root system and provide optimal soil conditions (which again, the trees are genetically inclined towards, and work towards if we stop raking and expecting grass to abut them). Because of this, I respectfully disagree with the argument above. The point I believe the poster is trying to make, however, is not lost on me.

On an anecdotal level, I have dealt with many trees with both major and minor components which either would have failed or did fail and caused damage without reduction pruning. Which brings me back to the client. If a tree has a component part fail, which could have been avoided with proper structural pruning during the tree's development and the homowner chooses to remove the tree, then could it not be argued that leaving the tree alone led to its demise as well? What is the argument regarding bracing or cabling? Trees fail. Failure in urban trees represents a risk because people and property can potentially be damaged. Arborists both assess and problem solve to mitigate these risks. The conscientious arborist is required to present a solution which represents the compromise between safety and tree health and perhaps preeminently; the clients wishes.

Therein lies the conundrum for the arborist. Altruism is pretty hard to fit in there, but I'm sure some can make it work.
 
I tend to agree, I have seen several old trees with what we would consider long stubs on large limbs, cut stubs, not natural ones...the end is punky, but when cut back to the BBR/Collar, the wood is sound...so what is the old tree telling us?
Then other shorter stubs that are rotten and nasty all the way into the trunk...
It pays to keep your eyes open and learn from the trees!

Reminds me of another thread where someone was talking about pruning through just bending branches to simulate a snow load and letting them break off... not sure if that was here or another forum. Thought it pretty daft until I recalled looking at trees in the forest and how branches tend to fail away from the trunk and the BBR/collar developed out along the stub as it slowly decayed.
 
Therein lies the conundrum for the arborist. Altruism is pretty hard to fit in there, but I'm sure some can make it work.

Practical and safety considerations versus aesthetics and sentimentality, and the tightrope the arborst must walk to keep balance between the two. Nice Wulkie quote, btw.
 
Nice to read you Chuckles.

In some situations crown reduction, even on mature trees, is the only thing that keeps a tree from being removed. I disagree with Mr. Maas in absentia. Too bad he's not around to shut me down.
 
He might have moved. He went through a hard time a while back; my worst nightmare.
 
I miss Mike Maas. He showed up on Treebuzz a couple of days ago.
 
*BUMP*

Good thread, lots of great info. Glad I found this one....

There was something no one had mentioned of the first concern brought to attention -about the groundman and his lowering skills in regards to minimizing the swing.

As the freed log/branch starts it's descent and is flailing midair, the best way to avoid this is timing the pendulating to plumb and slacking aggressively, then tapering to a holding- and repeat this as it returns to plumb.

Immediately halts the swinging to a controlled steadied descent.
 
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