Precautions for climbing around primaries

[SouthSoundTree]

What types of precautions to trained climbers use for working near powerlines (I'm supposing they're EHAP certified, but don't know what the proper training credential is called)?

I had to look at some trees today where the resort is goign to be installing a septic drain field about 10-15' upwind of the trunks of 3 doug-firs in the 24"-ish dbh range, which are 3-4' from the primaries, and it got me wondering. Unfortunately these tall trees are out in the open, and the resort store and a house are downwind of our typical winter winds, and within striking distance.

I've heard no spikes, no steel core fliplines, and climb on the opposite side of the tree.

I'm imagining that they might carry their ropes in a ropebag.

Additional question: is it correct the the MAD is for any part of the tree, not just the climber's body? Is it correct that it would be illegal to transfer into the tree well above the powerlines? Would the danger come from the potential to drop a limb on the powerline that would be touching the tree, or close enough to arc to the tree?

How expensive and extensive is EHAP training?

 

[canadiantreeman]

What voltage are the lines? Keep in mind the Canuckian legislation is going to be different than yours. However some simple rules, I believe, are true across the board.

The limits of approach (closest you can be to the line with you or a conductive tool or LoA for short I think this is the same as what you mean by MAD) is based upon voltage. I'm guessing its a single phase, meaning the min approach for a certified utility arborist would be 3 feet. If this certified utility arborist was using a dielectric tool like a whiz saw or a pole pruner then the tool could come withing a foot. If you aren't trained you need to be at least 10' away from it, IMO. I'm not properly certified, but am an apprentice with less than 200 supervised hrs within that LoA. I have listened carefully to the CuA and read the current safe work practices made available by my employer. My experience is limited to residential distribution and transmission lines, so nothing major in terms of the juice.

I can tell you, given what I know now, I will not be working within the LoA until I am properly certified. 10' away for my arse. Not due to lack of knowledge or skill working around the juice, but experience (which is HUGE) and the legal ramifications for myself and my employer.

Spikes, steel cores are fine...climbing on the opposite side of the tree ain't gonna do much if the tree is already energized. Sure you don't want to be too close to the line, but this is why you need to know what voltage the lines are hummin' at, this is how you determine your LoA. Your body is a hell of a lot more conductive than a steel core flipline or climbing spikes.

Your clients will respect the fact that you know when to bow out of a job due to lack of certification. Its their ass if chit goes wrong. Not harshing on ya man, but that chit is unforgiving and deserves respect.

Basically the rule I am told, whether your climbing or in a bucket is to keep nothing but air in between you and the bucket or the tree and the line. The higher the voltage of the line, the more air.

Carrying your ropes in a bag to keep them from swinging into the line is a good idea, as is making sure your tie in will not swing you into the phase. I'm sure the more experienced trimmers have way more tricks up their sleeve.

We are told that if any part of the tree is able to contact the lines, then the tree is to be done by a CuA with an assurance or guarantee of non reclosure (ANR or GNR, depending on the system owner)

Hope that helps....

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Thanks, CTM,

How do you figure that it is their ass?

What happens when the trees are within the 3' LoA? Is it only "safe" to work on them from a certified (or whatever evaluation they put the trucks through), insulated line clearance bucket? Is this where they "blanket" them to work on them?
I'd like to be able to point the customer in the right direction.

Maybe the opposite side of the tree thing is to help keep dangling things from dangling on to the line (reduce the risk). I think that I've heard that this is a practice. Doesn't make it safe in and of itself.

I hate wires, but then again who likes them, except for line clearance companies/ crews.

 

[SkwerI]

I'm not line clearance certified, but I've been involved in plenty of training and instruction as well as real life experience dealing with power lines. One of the early rules that was given to me was "Don't turn your back on the line." It's too easy to get distracted and focusing on other issues if you're working in the vicinity of a power line and turn your back on it.

Another rule is to always assume it's hot even if you've been told it's shut off. I was climbing a removal in a back yard over the power lines and three back yards. The power company shut down the power to the block and said they would power it back up as soon as I was done. About an hour later while I was about 18" away from the lines and trying to hurry up so the power company could turn the power back on, the customer comes out of his house and says "Hey, did you know the power was back on?" The bastards energized the lines because a neighbor complained but they never bothered to see if I was clear first.

 

[canadiantreeman]

Backfeed from a generator is also a problem...and with every Tom, Dick and Harry prepared for the end of the world; one to remember. I believe there is a legal precedent in the US specifically regarding a situation in which an uncertified treeworker passed away after contacting a line while working for a homeowner. The tree trimmers estate sued the homowners and the homeowners lost the case and had to pay out damages because they had asked the uncertified fella to do work he was not certified to do. In Canada, if you hire a contractor without proper workers compensation (WCB), insurance and certification and this contractor is injured on your property, then WCB and the insurance company can sue you for the damages.

It was posted on the Buzz a long time ago, I remember reading it with interest. Simply put, if you are not trained and currently certified to do it, don't.

To point them in the right direction would be to point them towards a specialist utility crew, no offense. I have to point lots of customers in the right direction, it sux, I know, especially if you are hungry. Last winter I wouldn't, but I have learned much regarding line clearance work this year. The most important being how much I don't know. What I don't know or haven't experienced could be the difference between coming home safe or not.

Regarding the 3' proximity...we are talking about an uninsulated wire, correct? If this is the case, then it is possible that the trees themselves are acting as a path to ground as we speak. The amount of current that the tree conducts depends on the moisture content of the tree. It would be the case, therefore, that these trees could be termed electrical hazards. I haven't seen the trees, so don't quote me. Good luck man, and stay safe.

 

[sotc]

MAD is 10' for any utility line less than primary distribution if you are not line clearence certed. EHAP can be a day long class (just put my guys through it) or 18 months on the job training with a line clearence company. After our EHAP class, an aerial rescue and first aid/CPR I can say my guys are line clearance certed.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

NO OFFENSE TAKEN. Its not worth getting killed over, that's for sure.

I've wondered about trees that are right near the powerlines, like the blue spruce at my house which has been repeatedly topped by the line clearance crews, and has regrown. I've heard that when the trees grow into contact with the line, they burn themselves clear of direct contact. The arc factor is always there, I would imagine. I've wondered what potential the trees have for carrying current enough that they could affect someone with a pacemaker or something such as that.

There seem to be lots of trees within the MAD of certified trimmers. I guess that's where insulated buckets come into play.

When they clear my line next time, the first time since we bought our home, the spruce might go away. They don't seem to clear the lines to more than 10' though.


I had a homeowner call me a couple of weeks ago about trimming some trees away from his primaries. I figured that it was too close, but it was only a mile or so away form home, and waterfront property, so I figured that I would go make an introduction and check out the scene. When I got there, I saw his cherries had grown right up into the lines, essentially. One was hat-racked. He left about 6 leaves on the tree, except for the one lead that was still between the side-by-side primaries (high power and neutral, I believe). He came out as I walked up. I said, "Hi. So how many times did you get shocked?". He said, "Once". I said, "I bet only once. Did it feel like (and I made a convulsing/ twitching gesture). You could have been on the news." He acted surprised that his rubber gloves didn't keep him from getting shocked. But, somehow, with that level of sense, he was able to have a waterfront vacation home on Puget Sound. Isn't that ironic.

I tried not to crush his ego on the "pruning". I had to finally say that what he'd done (aside from being incredibly stupid, which I didn't say) goes against all accepted pruning practices. He figured that the tree was pretty much done with the leaves for the season, and would grow more next year.

 

[canadiantreeman]

Wow, Sean that guy must have had a horseshoe grounding him! I wish I could find that pic of Jerry's of the fella piecing out that redwood? top in between the phases. Insulated tool, spurs, belt, jeans, sunglasses and a set of brass knockers! I'll never forget that one.

Willie, for me to become certified to work the lines here, it would take a 6 week course, 1200 hrs within 10' supervised and signed off by a certified guy and another 1200 or so hours experience with a line clearance crew. So only 2200 hrs and a 6 week course (plus first aid and driver's licence, of course) left to go!

 

[HolmenTree]

Here is a ALOA card I always carry in my wallet.

Willard.

 

[thattreeguy]

i dont like electricity,
and i used to not sweat it and do the trees like you described all the time, within just feet if not inches

but i like the ol 10 ft away now
ehap is good for 10 ft ,
then you have to get line clearance certification

acrt offers it in ohio
but will your local utility recognize you?
mine wont
but my clients didnt mind

i minded once i got zapped

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Ehap was maybe not the right term. I may have been talking about LC cert.