SkwerI
Treehouser
Skwishey, I tried to told ya! Once you start running ported saws, you'll never be happy running a stock saw again. 
Now you're hooked!
Now you're hooked!
Porting ''strato" saws?
- Thread starter Jed
- Start date
- Replies 38
- Views 11K
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
This is true.
But imo the 441 is very anemic in stock trim. Smooth, but gutless.
But imo the 441 is very anemic in stock trim. Smooth, but gutless.
SkwerI
Treehouser
They're all gutless until they get worked on a little. 
Cut4fun
Redneck Chainsaw Repair
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2007
- Messages
- 2,635
Exactly what I was saying too.
You would have to have on your cream-sickle goggles to think otherwise. 
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
The 441 Tom has like I said does fairly well .What I noticed is it takes some time to wind up .He seemed to think it would cut about like his 044 .Niether that 441 or his 044 would keep up with my 038 Mag I tweeked but then again it's not stocker .
Hell by the time I get my hands on a 441 the thing will be an antique .Then again so will I by that time .As it is now I'm just vintage .
Hell by the time I get my hands on a 441 the thing will be an antique .Then again so will I by that time .As it is now I'm just vintage .
Jed
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #31
You guys rock. Thanks for responding at all. I appreciate it.
Squisher: Thanks so much for forever denominating our two 441's as "the sewing machines"--absolutely beautiful. Yeah... They make this really weird wizzing noise.:what:
Al: Appreciate the advice. BTW there's a Craigslisted 038 mag for sale pretty close to me for $175.00. Judging from the posted image, she's not so bad off either. Should I get it? What mods wld. I need? If they include decking: I can't do it.
Skwirl (Brian?): Yeah... really good advice, but inbreds are usually dead broke. I'm lookin' for easy gains for few $. I know, I know: "You get what you pay for." "Nothin's free." Etc.
Stig: Do you understand Red Neck Americans at all? Are you sure that you want to vacation here? Sir, please understand that most of us would probably go so far as to sacrifice a tiny bit of power just to make the darned thing LOUDER. Also, you're not considering that for most of us residential arborists--and in my case, wanna be commercial faller--the anti-vibe thing is great, but just no big deal. Most of us would be glad of the experience to fall a great deal more trees than we get to. You on the other hand, are a real faller, and I know from several testimonies that that trade kicks your ass. One wants all the breaks one can get, so sure: the noise and AV thing wld. certainly come into play.
You're right about the difference between Euros and Yanks though. Irish Joe whom Willie knows well, and several other housers have met, used to say, (with a genuinely, deeply pissed-off look on his face and tone in his voice) "You jackasses better put the spark arresters back into those 200T's the moment we get back to the shop! I'm serious!: Those damned things are just way, way too loud! They're absolutely ridiculous." We all just used to look at him like he was out of his mind: why wouldn't you want a saw to be louder? Would you play Metallica at the same volume as Bach?
Squisher: Thanks so much for forever denominating our two 441's as "the sewing machines"--absolutely beautiful. Yeah... They make this really weird wizzing noise.:what:
Al: Appreciate the advice. BTW there's a Craigslisted 038 mag for sale pretty close to me for $175.00. Judging from the posted image, she's not so bad off either. Should I get it? What mods wld. I need? If they include decking: I can't do it.
Skwirl (Brian?): Yeah... really good advice, but inbreds are usually dead broke. I'm lookin' for easy gains for few $. I know, I know: "You get what you pay for." "Nothin's free." Etc.
Stig: Do you understand Red Neck Americans at all? Are you sure that you want to vacation here? Sir, please understand that most of us would probably go so far as to sacrifice a tiny bit of power just to make the darned thing LOUDER
. Also, you're not considering that for most of us residential arborists--and in my case, wanna be commercial faller--the anti-vibe thing is great, but just no big deal. Most of us would be glad of the experience to fall a great deal more trees than we get to. You on the other hand, are a real faller, and I know from several testimonies that that trade kicks your ass. One wants all the breaks one can get, so sure: the noise and AV thing wld. certainly come into play.You're right about the difference between Euros and Yanks though. Irish Joe whom Willie knows well, and several other housers have met, used to say, (with a genuinely, deeply pissed-off look on his face and tone in his voice) "You jackasses better put the spark arresters back into those 200T's the moment we get back to the shop! I'm serious!: Those damned things are just way, way too loud! They're absolutely ridiculous." We all just used to look at him like he was out of his mind: why wouldn't you want a saw to be louder? Would you play Metallica at the same volume as Bach?
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
$175 isn't a bad price for an 038 mag providing it's in fairly decent shape .
You could get by without decking the cylinder .The base gasket is 20 thou thick .If you removed it and used sealant like #2 Permatex,Yamaha bond or something you could reduce the squish by around 18 thou which should put it in the mid 20 thou range from the original 46 thou .It will drop the ex opening to around 102-104 degrees which won't make it run faster but it will have grunt plus unbelievable compression . Actually using the flat top piston with no pop up it will likely pull over about as hard as an 066 .
Widen both the intake and exhaust and gut the muff you have a winner .There's more you can do but if you get it and do just that it will surprise you .If you don't like it put the gasket back in and you haven't changed a thing from stock port timing .
You could get by without decking the cylinder .The base gasket is 20 thou thick .If you removed it and used sealant like #2 Permatex,Yamaha bond or something you could reduce the squish by around 18 thou which should put it in the mid 20 thou range from the original 46 thou .It will drop the ex opening to around 102-104 degrees which won't make it run faster but it will have grunt plus unbelievable compression . Actually using the flat top piston with no pop up it will likely pull over about as hard as an 066 .
Widen both the intake and exhaust and gut the muff you have a winner .There's more you can do but if you get it and do just that it will surprise you .If you don't like it put the gasket back in and you haven't changed a thing from stock port timing .
Magnus
TreeHouser
In this case the fresh air engine is the opposite. It is bigger, heavier, less HP than a conventional saw. It is the European company's that want to sell it too..If I'm "some people" it is simply that I look at other things than raw power when evaluating a saw.
Probably a Euro thing, since we have seen the same thing in sports cars.
Americans value horsepower, whereas Europeans feel that the ability to drive around corners count for something ,too
Not trying so much to make it smaller and more powerful as one would think was the goal...
It has nothing to do with anything other than sales and products/Marketing.
The reason manufacturer give to produce fresh air engines is environmental laws! BS In my humble opinion.
They must do it too meet the laws, they say... No laws here prevent conventional saws to be sold. Never seen any law that stop them either.
There are plenty saws sold that are not environmentally correct. Have a look at the different brands models. Not to mention Box stores...
Put two equal saws side by side and run them. Cut after cut, 3 tanks is enough.
You see the environmentally correct engine produce less with more fuel.
I compared HVA 455 to Dolmar 5000 and HVA 372 against a 575.
If it was to be environmentally correct they would not sell one consumer grade saw, ever!
The consequence of making consumer grade saw is a lot worse.
Magnus
TreeHouser
In the history of saws the features they focus on in as sales arguments has been a hole lot different.
Most power, less weight, less vibration, smallest, biggest, low Db, takes 2" longer bar than..., new features etc...
The fresh air engines is nothing more than the other marketing gimmick's the used.
Sure the fresh air engines run differently, but not stronger, cheaper or hold better.
I doubt the ones that are happy with them would be less happy with a conventional saw.
Most power, less weight, less vibration, smallest, biggest, low Db, takes 2" longer bar than..., new features etc...
The fresh air engines is nothing more than the other marketing gimmick's the used.
Sure the fresh air engines run differently, but not stronger, cheaper or hold better.
I doubt the ones that are happy with them would be less happy with a conventional saw.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
According to Eddie they aren't worth fiddling with to soup up .
The ones I've seen that were doctored up the sellers bragged up .Then it makes a person wonder if they were such hot little go getters as so enhanced why would they sell them .
That plus the price is really about what a new one costs and with low hours running time to boot .
So now I can't help but wonder with the anticipation of the return of the 440 if Stihl might be loosing a few market shares in the 70 cc saw range .
The ones I've seen that were doctored up the sellers bragged up .Then it makes a person wonder if they were such hot little go getters as so enhanced why would they sell them .
That plus the price is really about what a new one costs and with low hours running time to boot .So now I can't help but wonder with the anticipation of the return of the 440 if Stihl might be loosing a few market shares in the 70 cc saw range .
Cut4fun
Redneck Chainsaw Repair
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2007
- Messages
- 2,635
Best gasket maker out there Theebond 1194. If it is good enough for the hotsaw builder in MI, it's good enough for little ole me. It has been used in place of crankcase gaskets, metal fuel tank gaskets etc.
http://www.threebond.co.jp/en/product/series/sealants/productdetails/1100/1194.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/Three-Bond-Thre...wmobile_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2559bebcbc
http://www.bikebandit.com/threebond-liquid-gasket-1194
http://www.threebond.co.jp/en/product/series/sealants/productdetails/1100/1194.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/Three-Bond-Thre...wmobile_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2559bebcbc
http://www.bikebandit.com/threebond-liquid-gasket-1194
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
I just might try a no gasket deal on another 038 Mag I have .I've never done one without cutting the base and carving the piston .It might be an interesting comparrison using a flat top piston .If I don't like it ,just cut the base and do as I've always done,no harm,no foul .
Besides all that 038 mag cylinders are easy to come by if I do screw it up .What the hey you never know unless you try it .
Besides all that 038 mag cylinders are easy to come by if I do screw it up .What the hey you never know unless you try it .
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I have had great success with the Threebond 1194, I believe it's the one that replaced the former type that had a lead content. So far after a couple years with a heavily used saw, the seal made with the goop is still holding. Rough up the mating faces a bit before using.
