Mentors/mentoring

[Graeme McMahon]

My company does not recognise any of the current competency qualifications as operational standards. They lack experience. I have a mentoring program to bridge that gap.
Graeme McMahon

 

[woodworkingboy]

Tough mentors sometimes have the nicest darn wives. They know that the situation calls for a little relief.

 

[pete mctree]

I was asked to help mentor 2 lads when the commenced working for us. I have hopefully helped them a little on there way, sharing what little knowledge I have, but I have also noticed a personal change in my work patterns. I have had to think how & why I do everything so to be able to show them. It has been an interesting journey so far.

 

[The Branch Doctor]

I was introduced to climbing by a guy that was notoriously shady and an awful excuse for a teacher. He was skilled as a climber but clueless and stingy about sharing his knowledge. I honestly learned more from sherrill catalogs than I did from him yet he loves to tell people that I am the climber that I am today because he taught me everything I know.

 

[Cobleskill]

What a jack wagon.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I ain't gonna train anyone that can take my place. I learned that lesson the hard way.

 

[Blinky]

I've got Jared, local 24 year old guy, no real college opportunity. He's learned to climb and cut working with me. Mentoring is a good word, I don't feel like I'm teaching so much as giving supervised experience. I show him how to use something and turn him loose, he usually picks it up pretty quick but I've yet to see him or any young guy put the kind of care into a task that I want. I always end up doing the final cleanup because nobody else does it to my satisfaction.
Jared's really come along though, he can get around pretty much any canopy safely and is doing light rigging.... just like me though, he sucks on spikes.

I have another guy Don who's a beast on the ground and wants to climb but I haven't put a rope on him yet.

I wish the employment world put more stock in apprenticeships, at least as much as a college education. Year for year an apprentice learns more that they will actually use than a grad student.

 

[OTGBOSTON]

I would not be where I am today if I didn't have several good mentors in my professional life. It started when I was 18 working on a small farm and met the guy who would later encourage me to go to the Stockbridge School. I have tried to be conscious of finding good mentors since then. Of the two men who influenced me most in Arboriculture, one died of a heroin overdose about five years ago the other was just elected president of the Mass Arborists...they were/are the typical euc, man oak man analogy.

On the other side of the coin...I agree its not wise to teach your competition, I followed that philosophy the whole time I was doing commercial tree work. That being said I can think of a few guys who would tell ya they learned "every thing they know about tree work' from me.

Now I realize that there is a need for me to be a mentor for my own good.

 

[sotc]

My company does not recognise any of the current competency qualifications as operational standards. They lack experience. I have a mentoring program to bridge that gap.
Graeme McMahon

If you were just a few thousand measly miles closer, I would apply to your program

 

[Bermy]

I'll run courses for anyone on maintenance and crosscutting...climbing I'll keep for me, don't want to train myself out of a job!
I sub for a big landscape company...just before I left last week, I had a five day job for them reducung a bunch of white cedars on a boundary with tight drop zones. Quite a bit of stuff had to be rigged, simple one pulley POW stuff. There was a 22yr old sent to drag brush, I got him setting up the rope through the POW and catching the pieces...he did really well and I let him know...it's nice to see a big smile coming at you from the ground!

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I've been mentored some in person. Most has come from online interaction and personal experience.

I try to pass along good information to my employees, and only try to find employees that don't seem like they are ready to learn to cut, then go independent. I try to stress to them that there are tons of bills and stresses that go along with business ownership.

I figure that they will not last forever in my employ, but for the time that they are here, the will be able to do a good job, safely, look and interact with customers in a professional way, which reflects well on my business.

If someone comes in with the skills, they get more compensation. If they don't come in with the skills, part of their compensation is being well trained in a trade that they can take anywhere in the world (with some adjustments) and make money for the rest of their lives. Ben came in knowing little, and having little experience, but the right attitude and willingness to learn.

Eric just started with me yesterday, full time, as Ben is off for Xmas, then back to school. After these 15 months, Ben will get the same recommendation from me that I got from Eric's old boss in Ohio, "You'd be silly not to hire him. We will happily give him his job back anytime."

 

[Paul B]

I wish the employment world put more stock in apprenticeships, at least as much as a college education. Year for year an apprentice learns more that they will actually use than a grad student.

I hope the program we have developed for apprentices will provide exactly that, 6-8 weeks of school (classroom and field) then a year of working to practice with a mentor.

As a company owner and currently a sole proprietor you can bet I am looking to train someone to take my place in the field, I am tired of working hard, its time to start working smart, like my momma always told me

 

[Burnham]

It occurred to me while reading through this thread that, much as I and some others have sung the praises of the USFS chainsaw training and certification program, it really puts emphasis the ability to perform skills to achieve certification. The cert. is based on a day of classroom presentation and discussion, followed by a day cutting in the field under the eye of the instructor. If the trainee fails to perform adequately on that day, they just don't get certified and don't get to cut on the job, rather than automatically getting additional training as a matter of course.

This is a far cry from the sort of mentoring of apprentices over an extended period of time that Stig offers, and is obviously an inferior system.

A few of us experienced FS instructors take it a lot farther than the basic S-212 program, taking the time to actually help cutters learn the ropes, but it's done on our own initiative...frequently responding to a special level of interest we see in a particular youngster. That was what was going on in the hazard tree fell in the Day in the Life thread. Too bad it's not more on the model of a true mentoring program.

Our tree climbing training and certification program is a little better, generally training is spread over 4 or 5 days, with lots of 1 on 1 time between instructor and student, but in the end it's just a week. To really produce a fully qualified, safe and efficient climber clearly takes longer. We help that process along by utilizing a trainee climber cert. level, requiring a specified amount of time working as climbing partner with a fully certified climber, with more experience. But that fully cert. climber doesn't have to be certified as an instructor, so it's a crap shoot as to how well they mentor.

We do better than average on training people, I guess...but there surely is room for improvement. It definitely would cost more to do it better, but I wish we did.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Training people beyond just techniques is also giving them some additional impetus to stay in the trade. I understand that there is a big turnover in the tree working industry. Jerry touches on it in his book, a very mentoring text.

 

[canadiantreeman]

The first two tree outfits I worked for taught me little...save a blakes and how to throwline. Then I worked for a fella who cared to teach. He was a good mix of old school, but probably with a little more patience and compassion. He definitely had me shaking in my boots a few times, but was a great teacher. Now I work with people who know everything.

 

[stig]

Training people beyond just techniques is also giving them some additional impetus to stay in the trade. I understand that there is a big turnover in the tree working industry. Jerry touches on it in his book, a very mentoring text.

Back when I started logging, there was no apprentice system at all. You were guaranteed minimum wages for the first 3 months, after that it was keep up or starve.
I was told that statistically 90% quit within the first year. It was VERY hard to make money from pulp cutting untill you had done it for a long time.

Back then you could take courses at the forestry school. There was no formal logging education only course modules.
You could only get in if you were already employed as a logger and there was a 1 year waiting list.
That actually worked fine, because all the quitters were weeded out by then.

Of course having so many quit is far from ideal, but today the situation is almost the opposite.
There is no hurdles to pass in order to get accepted on the logging education at the forestry school, about 1/3 of the students are fat softies that'll never become loggers.
One reason I've had so good success with my apprentices ( apart from being such a gifted teacher, of course) is that I have been VERY careful about whom to accept.

 

[woodworkingboy]

A theory I've heard about the "hard teacher is a good teacher" approach, is that if a new person has to endure to advance, then once they have achieved their level of proficiency, they are less likely to so readily want to give it up. A certain level of commitment also gets put into the mix from the start. That also applies to someone having to learn through observation on the job, as opposed to handing it all to them on a silver platter. One of the differences between school and what often goes on out there in the real world, using a felt pen to underline paragraphs in a book, unlike some scary mean ogre telling you that you are the worst apprentice that he has ever had and asking why were you were ever
born?

I think it really comes down to the type of student, meanness isn't always a priority....

 

[Highclimber]

I think that willie needs to take more credit for his acomplishments. I started out doing tree work as a pro chef and didn't no a darn thing about tree work. I had only used a chain saw a few times to do things that now I would consider dangerous and stupid. willie is totally a mentor and I am his student I am confident in my abilitys as a tree climber beacause of the time he has takin to show me the right way to do things and the patience he has shown through my learning curve. his ability to pick out the things I do right more than just the things I do wrong is one of a true mentor/teacher and I don't think that I would have near the knowledge I have about the tree care industry if I had worked for any other local company in my area.

 

[SkwerI]

Willie is pretty darn modest, but he makes up for it by being a troublemaker and all around punk.

 

[OTGBOSTON]

haha-true

good post highclimber....

There is a difference between teaching and mentoring...no?

 

[Blinky]

I my opinion 'teaching' is a really lousy way for people to learn... but it's very efficient and you can turn out a huge, cheap, consistent workforce with it. A mediocre workforce for sure but cheap and functional. I was never good at school but I'm plenty smart... er, was at least until those last couple a head injuries, but I got through it, picked up some good info, mainly chemistry and physics but I don't actually LEARN anything unless I do it. Preferably in a real environment with all the concomitant risks and shit.

The first prerequisite to learning is DESIRE. Teaching doesn't take that into account nor does it take responsibility for long term results, pass the test you're done. Teaching is cheap.

I think a person who learns through apprenticeships has the more expensive education compared to a college grad... but the mentor ends up bearing a big part of the cost in terms of extra time, damaged materials, lost productivity, etc. It's certainly a more tailored education.

 

[Highclimber]

I totally agree with you there is a huge difference between the person you get from mentoring rather the person you get from teaching

The first prerequisite to learning is DESIRE. Teaching doesn't take that into account nor does it take responsibility for long term results, pass the test you're done. Teaching is cheap.

I think a person who learns through apprenticeships has the more expensive education compared to a college grad... but the mentor ends up bearing a big part of the cost in terms of extra time, damaged materials, lost productivity, etc. It's certainly a more tailored education.

 

[sotc]

 

[The Branch Doctor]

As I posted earlier, my first so called mentor hardly taught me squat which I kinda resented. I've been excited to learn and passionate about climbing since my first ascent and I thought I was being lead in the right direction. Once I started buying my own gear and researching what else was out there I realized my mentor was purposely holding out on me. So, I got away from that fool and started taking every class offered in my area, purchasing gear, and spent countless hours scouring the net for more knowledge. The tree climbers handbook became my bible and I followed its teachings closely.... and, of coarse, climbed a chitload of trees!

Now-a-days 70% of my business is contract climbing for other local tree companies and I get called in when they have trees that are either beyond the abilities of their climber, or they just don't have the proper equipment to do the job safely. Even though it's prolly in my best interest to let these guys stay stupid I still find myself showing them tricks, correcting their bad habits and encouraging safer practices. Most of em kinda look up to me and appreciate that I try to help them be a better climber and I enjoy the hell outta seeing them improve.... and so does the guy that they work for

 

[Al Smith]

Well like I said before .I sail in a different boat .However just like Gerry said early on I worked for some stubborn old coots that wouldn't show you jack chit because I think in their pea sized minds they feared you'd get better than them .Well guess what ,I did in spite of them .

I never felt that way myself .If a person wanted to learn I felt it was my job for the betterment and high standards of my trade to teach them . Some things you just don't learn in apprenticeship though ,everybody pays their dues ,one way or another .