Maple reduction

squisher said:
Looks good. Seven years between chops is pushing it to still call it a pollard?

No decay at all in the rest? I'll take your word for it. Now update it in another seven years ok?

That is a sweet truck!
Click to expand...

Well, what's in a name?
From the clients viewpoint it'd cost as much to do every year as every seven years.
We all have our own personal high horse we get on and for me it's that "the rules" don't differentiate between species of tree as far as what constitutes acceptable.
A bit like a veterinary surgeon treating a giraffe in the same way as an aardvark.
Would I suggest that action on a beech or pine etc? no of course not yet "the rules" treat all trees the same.
Ps. Thanks, I love the truck!
 
I was tempted to say you had maximalisted that tree (like a deranged Russian), but am feeling too mellow for such drama.
 
No comparing that work to the way they treat poplars in Sct Petersburg.
 
If they're healthy best to do hard reductn in dormancy.
Personally those trees should be crown cleaned and training this year and depending on response reduce mb next year or following yr.
Maple redn 16.jpg
 
3 d's dead disease damaged, redundancies, crowded etc Suckers are associated with below a graft or below ground-so water sprouts and reduce maybe. Sorry lazy typer in bed after a long day in the cold. Take care
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #61
Thank you for the explanation.

You sure get further out on teeny tiny limbs that I am usually comfortable with, hopefully that'll improve with more experience.
 
woodslinger said:
You sure get further out on teeny tiny limbs that I am usually comfortable with, hopefully that'll improve with more experience.
Click to expand...

Tree #1 needs just that kind of climbing, unless you want to butcher it. Maybe it's time to call in some help and learn. Preservation Tree in your area?

Mick that is nice work. That kind of high pollard is getting more common in North America. Pel how far are you from Newmarket? Check Redvers Tree there. Seeing his work may pull you over from the dark side. maple pa specs.jpg
 
Whaddya mean "the dark side"? I like Mick's work! It's growing on me.
Also like the objective and specs mentioned in the photo.
Your chop marks seem capricious and arbitrary. Unsure how well that particular haircut would achieve the stated objective.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #64
Thank you for taking the time to diagram that for me. I was looking at cutting back more than that, I will try to stick more to what you have outlined.
I met with the client today, plan for the first 2 are as mentioned - 1.Trim to clear house and wires, then balance a bit 2. trim to previous trimming cuts.

3. He wants it trimmed a little to keep it from getting to bushy/burly
4. He sees a huge, overgrown, bushy/burly tree and wants it reduced.

I asked him directly what he was looking for with those 2 and that his answer, he wants to see nice trees when he looks at them, by his definition. Knowing him as well as I do, what he wants is what he wants and he won't be happy till we achieve it. So I agreed to his work requests and will get out as far on the tippy tips as I can and cut off as little as possible. I see lots of redirects in those trees...
 
Make very specific specs on the work

"Just so that we are clear, I propose to work to these specs, for X dollars, or we can work hourly if you want it to be just so."

Consider a tow-behind man-lift, or self-propelled (heavier and spendier, plus needs to be delivered by semi). Easier to make cuts farther out and better. You'll be better able to shape it to his liking, along with prune it more to the trees' likings.
 
woodslinger, all good! Talking about the client's desires is a crucial conversation. "He wants it trimmed a little to keep it from getting to bushy/burly...4. He sees a huge, overgrown, bushy/burly tree and wants it reduced."
Sounds like you can and will make him happy, and do right by the tree! The outer contours of the crown should be about the same before and after, but being less dense, the work should satisfy the objective. I would stress the contributions--shade, windbreak, aesthetics--of the crown, and point out that a hard reduction will cause crazy sprouting and higher maintenance.

southsound is right about being precise with specs, and giving an hourly rate if he gets way picky. Maybe bump up the spect to 15-20% in response to his size concerns. Limiting cut size to <4" is key imo. I do not agree though about an aerial lift. Yes, redirects and multiple tie-in points will get you where you need to go. Pole tools highly recommended!

Pel, the dark side is the removalist mentality. re the red lines, gimme a break! That's all the precision I could deliver pro bono based on one pic. They did not appear capricious and arbitrary to minds untainted by removalism. Combined with the text, it communicated to woodslinger well enough.
 
Just seems like you ran out of ink, or time, mebbe.
For instance, those service lines look (to my tainted eye) like they will still have limbs growing into them post pruning!
kinda hard to tell based on one photo from one angle.
 
Tell you what, spend all day cutting as little as possible off, blind the client with BS about ISA regs or whatever, when he dares to say that he was hoping for something a bit more radical, lecture him about the evils of topping, tell him you're not that sort of tree surgeon and flounce off.
 
Bounce and flounce and get paid by the ounce!

But seriously Mick I'd probably bid 2-2.5 hours on climb time, and take 3 or so if I was in the mood to dawdle. How much faster would topping be?

Maybe you want to take a capricious and arbitrary swing at marking up some specs to make the owner happy? Like you said earlier, maples don't CODIT like planetrees.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #71
I had not considered a lift for this job, the cost of a self propelled is definitely a deterrent, but a tow behind might work. I'm just not sure on the height. The 2 nearest rentals have a 45 and 50 ft tow behind, which along with an extendable pole pruner and an extendable pole saw (with an extra extension) it might work. But I'm not sure, tree 4 is pretty tall, significantly taller then the 45ft lift I used recently. I'm pretty confident I can get where I need to be with my gear and pole equipment, I'd hate to bring in a lift and then find that I'm a bit short and have to climb anyway.

He is not looking for a major reduction, but will definitely be expecting the crown outline to shrink a bit. I'll reduce the outer crown by a tiny bit, and thin it as well to make it look more reduced, as well as deadwood and remove interior branches, anything crossing, or anything that will cross in the future, etc. I feel confident that I can make my client happy without causing detrimental harm to the tree.

Thank you for all the input, it was extremely helpful in figuring out how to approach this job.
Including this one and the stump job I just gave him an estimate for today, I've got 4 jobs lined up with him, so he needs to be kept happy ;)
 
Time wise I don't know Guy, there's topping and there's topping!
I would probably get up the central leader with the client in attendance and ask him where he want the tree taken down to (a certain amount of discussion is normal, if it's crazy hard)
Then start there and work around the tree, make a natural looking shape always trying to take it back to live growth.
 
A lift means not having to reclimb it again and again, until it looks like HE wants it. "Well, that part sticks out now." "Well, could you just go back over there and make that a little shorter, because if I stand here..."

Give him and hourly rate, and climb it. I'm happy to shake branches for my hourly rate. I"ll read to the owners kids at that rate, too. I've pruned a dead tree before, pointing at branches. PayPal didn't mind. I didn't mind.


A climber can do the job as spec'ed, reasonably easily on SRT. From the sounds of it, the specs will change mid-job.
I could be reading it wrong. I'd consider throwing a second and third line from the top of the tree, maybe saving your climbing by changing over to a different climbing rope, while in the tree.

If you're not climbing SRT. Go get a piece of wood and make a wooden rope wrench, the stepping stone from the box-end wrench to the ZK1, to the ZK2.
 
A lift means not having to reclimb it again and again, until it looks like HE wants it. "Well, that part sticks out now." "Well, could you just go back over there and make that a little shorter, because if I stand here..."

Give him and hourly rate, and climb it. I'm happy to shake branches for my hourly rate. I"ll read to the owners kids at that rate, too. I've pruned a dead tree before, pointing at branches. PayPal didn't mind. I didn't mind.


A climber can do the job as spec'ed, reasonably easily on SRT. From the sounds of it, the specs will change mid-job.
I could be reading it wrong. I'd consider throwing a second and third line from the top of the tree, maybe saving your climbing by changing over to a different climbing rope, while in the tree.

If you're not climbing SRT. Go get a piece of wood and make a wooden rope wrench, the stepping stone from the box-end wrench to the ZK1, to the ZK2. Simply not midline attachable. NBD compared to the struggles of DdRT, IMO. F*&@ do I hate changing, unpredictable friction in DdRT!
 
La becasse said:
Time wise I don't know Guy, there's topping and there's topping!
I would probably get up the central leader with the client in attendance and ask him where he want the tree taken down to (a certain amount of discussion is normal, if it's crazy hard)
Then start there and work around the tree, make a natural looking shape always trying to take it back to live growth.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a safe and reasonable approach to go on the clock, with the reminder to the client that the harder the tree is reduced, the less natural it will look, and the higher the maintenance will be.
 
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