Jonsered Iron Horse
- Thread starter aceruk
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Al Smith
Mac Daddy
I suppose the recover method is just based on the size of the job and what you have available .
Obviously about the only method that would work on the western slopes is high lines .Around these parts it's rubber tired skidders .
The Amish are about the only group that use draft horses . What very little I've done was using a D4 Cat .
That little itty bitty crawler gizmo looks like it would work for small stuff though .Price is bit steep in my opinion for no bigger than it is .
Obviously about the only method that would work on the western slopes is high lines .Around these parts it's rubber tired skidders .
The Amish are about the only group that use draft horses . What very little I've done was using a D4 Cat .
That little itty bitty crawler gizmo looks like it would work for small stuff though .Price is bit steep in my opinion for no bigger than it is .
Ax-Man
Don't make me chop you
We used to have horses. All I could think of while watching the horse vid is if we tried hitching ours to that grapple we would have a run away team as soon as the grapple moved.
That was a good vid though. I liked it.
That was a good vid though. I liked it.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I'll bow to Thor's experience, when he says bullocks to horse logging, but if you cruise the "people using horses for logging" forums and such, just about every other word is "environmentally friendly". Someone must be awfully uninformed.
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
Yes, the people who pay through the nose for horse logging are uninformed by the guys pushing the horse logging. I'd like to try it, but from what I've heard, I can move more wood in a couple of hours with my little Kubota than a team can move in a day, with less damage.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Nobody is saying that if you put the horse team up against mechanized equipment in a John Henry type competition, that the horses will win out.
It's more that the teams do less damage, especially in a confined environment. I looked for somebody offering a contrary opinion, but didn't find one, except for one hippie who said that his neighbor wrecked the woods with horses.
It's more that the teams do less damage, especially in a confined environment. I looked for somebody offering a contrary opinion, but didn't find one, except for one hippie who said that his neighbor wrecked the woods with horses.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
On the subject of equine power a lot of the old timers prefered large mules ,the big ones .They are a cross between a mammoth donkey Jack and a Belgian mare .
My departed pap always claimed a mule in spite of it's legacy was smarter .
I don't know if they tear the woods up or not .I can however show you 18" deep ruts left by logging a frame trucks that cut the woods up back in the 60's . 45 years later they are still there .
My departed pap always claimed a mule in spite of it's legacy was smarter .
I don't know if they tear the woods up or not .I can however show you 18" deep ruts left by logging a frame trucks that cut the woods up back in the 60's . 45 years later they are still there .
Tree Reb
TreeHouser
Actually he said "bollocks", it sort of means bull****.
Bullock teams were used a lot here, long before me thankfully. I've worked in areas where they were used, they were hard men.
Not much like the video, but he does show people how they worked them.
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On fairly level ground, yes.
In the mountains the horse team will beat you easily.
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
Stig: Why, the slippage factor of the machine? I would think that the machine also has an advantage over the horses here. It doesn't get tired, it doesn't get run over by the hitch, and I can drop the load at the bottom of a tough spot and winch it in when I get the tractor at a convenient spot. I'd like to hear some numbers for what a pair of horses can get in in a day. The guy that does sleigh rides for us at HSV is a full-time horse logger, and he said he could log about a 1,000 feet a day with a pair of belgians. That's not very much, and better be a high value hardwood if you're going to be feeding the horses, much less yourself.
Jay, what is your definition of a confined environment? If you mean no skid roads, then you are dealing with a lot of damage to the remaining trees as either machine or horse drags the logs around the bases.
Jay, what is your definition of a confined environment? If you mean no skid roads, then you are dealing with a lot of damage to the remaining trees as either machine or horse drags the logs around the bases.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I don't know what I mean by "confined environment". It's what I read at the horse logging forum, people saying advantages with using horses when there isn't a lot of room to maneuver heavy equipment. I don't really know if it's true, so probably I should have worded it differently.
Once again, I couldn't find anybody saying that using horses will get you home to the dinner table faster.
They like to mention the less noise and air pollution thing too. Of course, people find it easy to find advantages in what they like using. The mind gets corrupted by enjoyment.
Once again, I couldn't find anybody saying that using horses will get you home to the dinner table faster.
They like to mention the less noise and air pollution thing too. Of course, people find it easy to find advantages in what they like using. The mind gets corrupted by enjoyment.
Burnham
Woods walker
When you think about the small area of a horse's hoof relative to the weight of the horse plus the load it's pulling compounded by the drive of the animal's muscles, I bet the pounds per square inch are high compared to mechanized forwarders.
On the ground, they sure do chew the heck out of the skid trails, especially in a bit of wet weather or ground with high soil moisture.
On the ground, they sure do chew the heck out of the skid trails, especially in a bit of wet weather or ground with high soil moisture.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I'm trying to think back to what the ground looked like in the arena area at this western riding club that was next to my shop in California. I seem to remember that it was churned up bad, but the ground didn't seem to be disrupted very deep. It may have been specially prepared soil, and there probably isn't a correlation with logging.
Looking at the video that was posted, however, if you look at the ground where the horses have walked over the grass, there doesn't seem to be any disruption at all. The grass hardly even looks flattened.
Looking at the video that was posted, however, if you look at the ground where the horses have walked over the grass, there doesn't seem to be any disruption at all. The grass hardly even looks flattened.
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
I don't doubt that there is a very cool element to doing the work. I like to do as much of my woodworking as I can with hand tools, very quiet, but that's just a hobby. The horses themselves may not pollute, but the truck that brought them to the job, and the tractors that baled the hay sure did.
My logging setup is about 7,500 pounds spread over about 860 square inches. That is 8.7 psi. A pair of drafts weighing let's say 1600 is 3200 pounds spread over about 400 square inches is about 8 psi. I'm not sure what a pair of drafts weighs, but 1600 should be a fair number. A more serious logging machine with four equally matched wide tires will be significantly lighter per psi, and tracked even more so.
I moved a pair of big drafts to a small paddock that was maybe a little under an acre. When we opened the door on the trailer, the owner said "these guys are going to rototill this place". And that they did, they kicked up their heels and ripped that little pasture to shreds in a few minutes. I've noticed that the horse guys don't like to work when it's wet in the woods any more than the machine guys do.
I'd still like a big pair of Shires to mess around with.
aceruk, sorry for the huge derail. Maybe we could get this part of the thread lopped off and made into a new topic?
My logging setup is about 7,500 pounds spread over about 860 square inches. That is 8.7 psi. A pair of drafts weighing let's say 1600 is 3200 pounds spread over about 400 square inches is about 8 psi. I'm not sure what a pair of drafts weighs, but 1600 should be a fair number. A more serious logging machine with four equally matched wide tires will be significantly lighter per psi, and tracked even more so.
I moved a pair of big drafts to a small paddock that was maybe a little under an acre. When we opened the door on the trailer, the owner said "these guys are going to rototill this place". And that they did, they kicked up their heels and ripped that little pasture to shreds in a few minutes. I've noticed that the horse guys don't like to work when it's wet in the woods any more than the machine guys do.
I'd still like a big pair of Shires to mess around with.
aceruk, sorry for the huge derail. Maybe we could get this part of the thread lopped off and made into a new topic?
I think I just came across as a fan of horse-logging.
That was entirely unintended, I'm all for machinery. If you want absolutely no ground disturbance, use a helicopter or a highline operation.
As for the amount of boardfeet a horse can move, I don't know.
Like I said, my experience is from the swiss alps, where we used horses to move those logs, that could not be gotten at any other way.
They were indeed valuable and big hardwoods.
I was just having a hard time seing you move a tractor in that terrain, you'd have to winch it the way a donkey engine was moved.
It might still be faster than the horse, after all the Donkey engine replaced the horse and ox teams in america.
Magnus
TreeHouser
There are many places a modern forwarder can't gå without serius dameges. Wet, soft grounds it does not matter how much tire you have....
My grand dad pulled out his wood with a sled after his (Nordsvensk) horse.
He had wood shoes for her and with them she walked out in the wet areas were we could not walk with boots!
In Elmia Woods there is a guy evry year showing of his wagons with hydraulic log lifters and full loads...
He is there hole week, walking the same rounds and still not much to show for it in comparison....
There is less damage in his show space on the Sunday than in the ATV showcases and not o mention the bigger stuff...
Here is one of his out on a job...
My grand dad pulled out his wood with a sled after his (Nordsvensk) horse.
He had wood shoes for her and with them she walked out in the wet areas were we could not walk with boots!
In Elmia Woods there is a guy evry year showing of his wagons with hydraulic log lifters and full loads...
He is there hole week, walking the same rounds and still not much to show for it in comparison....
There is less damage in his show space on the Sunday than in the ATV showcases and not o mention the bigger stuff...
Here is one of his out on a job...
aceruk
pleacher man
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #44
So...
I'm still interested in how much one of these iron horses might shift; i've seen studies where they reckon on 1.5-2 cubic metre per standard hour, based on a 100 metre/yard distance (google tells me that's 650-850 board ft / shr; btw, a standard hour allows for rest, other work etc)
I'm still interested in how much one of these iron horses might shift; i've seen studies where they reckon on 1.5-2 cubic metre per standard hour, based on a 100 metre/yard distance (google tells me that's 650-850 board ft / shr; btw, a standard hour allows for rest, other work etc)
Magnus
TreeHouser
I think it depends mostly on you and how it looks were you go.
It goes about as fast as I walk in forrest normally and I bet it can pull 3 cubic meters pretty easy if it is in normal length and sizes here.
It goes about as fast as I walk in forrest normally and I bet it can pull 3 cubic meters pretty easy if it is in normal length and sizes here.
aceruk
pleacher man
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #46
Thanks, magnus, for the info.
We had a demo today. Loading a log looks like an acquired skill, which the demo guy didn't really have, as he didn't seem that used to the machine. Having said that, we managed to drag a half ton log around anywhere the operator could go, through brambles, over stumps and piles of brash. The only thing it struggled on was getting over other logs, as the tracks slipped. I'm told you can fit spikes to the tracks, which would have helped. This one was as fast as the operator could go..on a clear ride, it would keep up with me almost jogging. I thought it did pretty well, considering it weighs less than half a ton
We had a demo today. Loading a log looks like an acquired skill, which the demo guy didn't really have, as he didn't seem that used to the machine. Having said that, we managed to drag a half ton log around anywhere the operator could go, through brambles, over stumps and piles of brash. The only thing it struggled on was getting over other logs, as the tracks slipped. I'm told you can fit spikes to the tracks, which would have helped. This one was as fast as the operator could go..on a clear ride, it would keep up with me almost jogging. I thought it did pretty well, considering it weighs less than half a ton
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Once again it just depends on what you have to work with .Factually speaking I've dragged logs that weighed at least a ton with a 3,500 pound Ferguson tractor . Of course the front end was 3 foot in the air and I had to use the brakes to steer with but I got-er-done .
O
olyman
Guest
Once again it just depends on what you have to work with .Factually speaking I've dragged logs that weighed at least a ton with a 3,500 pound Ferguson tractor . Of course the front end was 3 foot in the air and I had to use the brakes to steer with but I got-er-done .[/QUOTE]
redneck egunearing at its finest!!!!!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]redneck egunearing at its finest!!!!!!!!!!!
