humbled today and got away with it

[SouthSoundTree-]

Was the narrow notch for reducing rotation, hoping that it would land flat, rather than tip first, flopping the butt back onto the fence?

 

[murphy4trees]

Was the narrow notch for reducing rotation, hoping that it would land flat, rather than tip first, flopping the butt back onto the fence?

yes it was, and in retrospect I'd have to agree with Squish... I misjudged it... with all that back weight from the limbs, the face should have been further open. not too wide.. another 15º would have been plenty.
I didn't need the piece to land flat, just didn't want the but kicking back too far. the tree was maybe 4' from the inside corner of a fence... in hindsight that was way too much back weight for such a narrow notch.. good to distinguish between back lean and back weight from limbs... with back lean the COG changes as the tree moves.. with back weight from the limbs it doesn't necessarily, and if the limbs are angled down, it can actually get more back weight as it starts to move.. Mostly an issue with conifers and not something we face here too often.
another valid point of discussion is the use of skid steers for pulling. I can almost guarantee that the skid steer would have taken it right over. When the face closed the skid steer would have just kept moving... The SS offers a lot more flexibility (you could substitute "room for error") in falling and pulling tops etc.. many time I have left big heavy limbs on the back of big wood, over wires etc. and used equipment to ensure the back weight goes over with the wood. my idea of a good time ..
thanks for all your comments and questions.. not too many places to go these days where one can have an intelligent conversation about such matters...

 

[woodworkingboy]

Limb weight can sure be a devil in the details. Respect to Murph for informing, but having to pay four thousand dollars for damage was already my teacher.

 

[Limbrat]

Limb weight can sure be a devil in the details. Respect to Murph for informing, but having to pay four thousand dollars for damage was already my teacher.

Ouch! That would hurt really bad

 

[treebilly]

I'm guessing the thin notch combined with the slow pull plus the extreme back weight caused it to tip off side ways. Have you ever had a short block of wood stall when the notch closes? It's very hard to get it to fall right. Always seems to tip one way or the other.
We all take calculated risks. This is one that was misjudged. It came out good for you with no damage but pride.

 

[Burnham]

Is there an echo in here??? Or more like a dozen of them?

This was an easy case for the stump forensics crowd...I can't imagine what the OP was thinking would happen any differently than it did.

Willie...me, too...sucked in . Foolish of me, but that's what happens when you have several gin and tonics for breakfast...I have heard, anyway .

 

[murphy4trees]

you guys will have to work on your willpower eh?

 

[squisher]

You have some things to work on too.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I just keep hearing this song ........
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mYKWch_MNY0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[FireFighterZero]

I would have a hard time calling that a proper face cut. How much time did the top just sit there before it decided to fall over?

 

[Altissimus]

Limb weight can sure be a devil in the details. Respect to Murph for informing, but having to pay four thousand dollars for damage was already my teacher.

...Murf could have killed someone

 

[murphy4trees]

Mistakes are opportunities to learn something... I like learning.. especially when its no harm no foul....
And I have learned something here from you all. The fiber tear down the trunk was not the cause, it was secondary to the shallow notch/side and back weight. Its doubtful that scoring the corner of the hinge below the notch would have changed the outcome. I really appreciate the input. You guys are a collective resource..

 

[stig]

I haven't seen a fiber tear worth mentioning.
Only bark.
Cutting corners would have made no difference.
A Humboldt combined with a " normal" face would have done the job.
What the Brits call a birds mouth.
By the time the hinge broke, the weight would have been far enough forward that the top would have gone where it was intended to.

I do applaud you for showing this.

 

[Raj]

Was there a time constraint on completing the job? Would a maasdam rope puller have made a difference?

 

[stig]

No.
The speed of pulling would have made no difference whatsoever.
Unless you tied the rope to the tail end of those dragsters that you Yanks love so much.

 

[Raj]

I'm Canadian.

 

[squisher]

Yah. We would have tied it to a moose and used maple syrup on his hooves for extra traction. Then we would've killed the moose and turned it into bacon.....no that's not impossible.....if you're Canadian.

 

[murphy4trees]

I haven't seen a fiber tear worth mentioning.
Only bark.
Cutting corners would have made no difference.
A Humboldt combined with a " normal" face would have done the job.
What the Brits call a birds mouth.
By the time the hinge broke, the weight would have been far enough forward that the top would have gone where it was intended to.

I do applaud you for showing this.

Thanks Stig,
I thought it was worth a little show and tell.
Pretty sure the skid loader would have created enough momentum to take it to the lay.
At that point I had maybe 20-25 minutes in the bucket. I went back up and trimmed a few branch tips, then set a pull line.. 5 more minutes max, so there was no time constraint.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

That looks like a case where machine power would have won.

Limbs, especially with air drag of foliage will retard the rotation, I believe, so account for less rotation from the same size notch.

An interesting and astute point that long, draping limbs may increase back weight as they rotate.

 

[Raj]

Yah. We would have tied it to a moose and used maple syrup on his hooves for extra traction. Then we would've killed the moose and turned it into bacon.....no that's not impossible.....if you're Canadian.

Mmmm.....moose bacon

 

[squisher]

That looks like a case where machine power would have won.

I agree, had the skid steer been in play I'd bet it would've yanked it right over and it wouldn't have been lost over the side.

 

[stig]

With a correct face, yes.
Not with one as close as that one.
Once the hinge breaks, the show is over.
In a case like this it is all about having the hinge hold as long as possible.

 

[stig]

I'm Canadian.

Sorry.
That would have been like calling me a Swede.
Not done!

 

[squisher]

With a correct face, yes.
Not with one as close as that one.
Once the hinge breaks, the show is over.
In a case like this it is all about having the hinge hold as long as possible.

I disagree Stig. Power and speed could've overcome that and got it to the lay I bet, even with that hinge. My gut says the man pull only had enough to really get it over enough to break the hinge enough that it could go astray.

 

[stig]

Speed enough, yes.
Why I suggested a dragster.
A skidsteer isn't fast.