Grove AT635E

Compacted soil from human traffic carrying weight or machines is collateral damage. Compaction from bunk logs, filling soil, seeding with grass that need attention and that maybe doesn't match is collateral damage. For many jobs its fine. If you can work on frozen ground, good. If you can work on dry summer lawns, not so bad either. Everything flying through the air, landing on a road, lowest impact. We are wet here a lot. Traffic adds up.

Some homeowners hire out lawn/ yard care, and probably have to pay extra after tree removal work. I don't know.

Otherwise, there are always small sticks around. Sawdust that gets matted here and there. Little divots or dents, or slightly bigger. Dragging brush will at some point beat up some bushes, scrape a little 'pin-stripe' on a gate or the house, etc. Old fence doesn't go back together exactly as it should, etc. Collateral damage.

Don't get me wrong, a good team can get stuff out without beating a place up.


For some people, mostly of the income bracket that we mostly are not in ourselves, would say, yes, its worth and extra $200 for you to be in and out in 2 hours with less impact. Other people would be happy to save $200 even if it meant more post-removal mitigation or impact left as it is. They wouldn't care if you were there 3 days. Some will see the bottom line, only, cheapest way out of getting a tree gone.

All about what the market will bear and being fair with people. Get it where you can, know when its not worth any extra to the customer.
 
The average tree removal isn't going to be worth more because you use a crane, although there will be situations where you can charge a premium for using a crane when it isn't required.


The main benefit of a crane (or most equipment) is being able to do the same work faster at roughly the same price (or sometimes less to increase volume). With increased volume, as a percentage of gross, your overhead is less, sometimes significantly so. I haven't "made" it yet, but it certainly seems like volume is the answer to more money at the end of the year.
 
brendonv said:
$800 tree no matter whose cutting it

2 guys, 4 hrs. $100/ man hour

2 guys, crane, 2 hrs. $200/ man hour

Or were you just being silly.
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This is exactly what I mean. The price of the job doesn't change, but your hourly rate might because you bang it out so quick. So in the end, the overall job price doesn't increase, but the hourly rate will because it takes you half the time to finish that job.

Then you have to have the sales and the volume to keep up with the increase in production.


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Great points made about pricing. I think if you go out for any less than your hourly rate + a 30T crane(what you used to pay for one), then you're cutting yourself short

Back to pricing, Low impact removals can be a tough sell, since it seems most people seem to look for the bottom dollar sale. Usually they end up paying more by the time they fix their roof, lawn, ruts, sprinklers, fence, and/or sidewalks, from the low bid removal. I'm not in the repair business myself. Always try to sell the job well done. Rarely do customers beg for high impact work in exchange for lower cost.
 
Thor's Hammer said:
And there are plenty of customers who will pay extra for that. Not everybody wants the cheapest service.
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Paul still shouldn't be the cheapest. You should come in at the middle with the pricing. A customer generally doesn't want the cheapest but they also don't want the most expensive.


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SouthSoundTree- said:
Compacted soil from human traffic carrying weight or machines is collateral damage. Compaction from bunk logs, filling soil, seeding with grass that need attention and that maybe doesn't match is collateral damage. For many jobs its fine. If you can work on frozen ground, good. If you can work on dry summer lawns, not so bad either. Everything flying through the air, landing on a road, lowest impact. We are wet here a lot. Traffic adds up.

Some homeowners hire out lawn/ yard care, and probably have to pay extra after tree removal work. I don't know.

Otherwise, there are always small sticks around. Sawdust that gets matted here and there. Little divots or dents, or slightly bigger. Dragging brush will at some point beat up some bushes, scrape a little 'pin-stripe' on a gate or the house, etc. Old fence doesn't go back together exactly as it should, etc. Collateral damage.

Don't get me wrong, a good team can get stuff out without beating a place up.


For some people, mostly of the income bracket that we mostly are not in ourselves, would say, yes, its worth and extra $200 for you to be in and out in 2 hours with less impact. Other people would be happy to save $200 even if it meant more post-removal mitigation or impact left as it is. They wouldn't care if you were there 3 days. Some will see the bottom line, only, cheapest way out of getting a tree gone.

All about what the market will bear and being fair with people. Get it where you can, know when its not worth any extra to the customer.
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It seems we were each defining collateral damage differently. In my mind I was picturing bent gutters, ruts in the grass, and divits all over the place. A crane job is "cleaner" by a long shot.
 
I think the key thing everybody would agree on is that a crane makes a job much easier by reducing labour, cleaner, faster and safer.

All of the labour saving adds up to less cost, and more volume can be achieved.

I would be wary of becoming a slave to chasing volume though. I would try and do as much as I can, but not depend on having to do so. I would also work as much with my competition as I can - refer them pruning work and small jobs, in return for them refering you big tricky takedowns.

As the rules on cranes tighten up, you will be well ahead of the curve with your competition, and will have an excellent niche for yourself.
 
Thanks Jim. I also wanted add that an often overlooked benifit of a crane is that the entire crew are far less fatigued at the end of the day, making the workplace much safer. This is hard to quantify financially, but I think is a very significant advantage.
 
It's hard for me to see how you can decide on your fees with a crane, without first seeing how many jobs that you get where you will be using it. Do you pretty much know that already? Then there are maintenance costs and fuel charges... I don't know about in the states, but a little dookickey part here for a crane will make you think that there is a conspiracy going on. Tires for a rig like that, "Forget about it", as the mafiosa guys like to say.
 
The fees dont change Jay. The productivity and the the profit margins doo.

Cranes are just built with standard components, mostly off the shelf. Tyres for an all terrain are about $1500 a piece, but last forever
 
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  • #117
I always love doing crane removals so to me this is an investment in quality of life. Not sure if it will be a good financial investment but I will keep my fingers crossed for storms

Moved a few logs around with it today and got more familiar with her
 
Jay, Grove will charge ya $400 for a bearing you can get anywhere else for $40 and both are Timken. The good ol days of dealing with John Grove and Earl Keifer are long gone.
 
FireFighterZero said:
I like Ed's point of view on this.
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So do I.

As an aside, it takes a lot of nerve to make this purchase and pull the trigger. It's no just an expense, but somewhat of a liability, but also a change of direction for the business. Cheers to having the guts to grab the bull by the horns and making shit happen. I think fear stops a lot of us from ever seeing our real capabilities in the industry.
 
brendonv said:
An $800 tree is an $800 tree. Now instead of 4 hrs and two guys, maybe he can get two hours two guys and crane. Tis how i think of things.
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I agree. Now all you have to do is get Joe Beermoney to not bid it at $275, and you're all set.:lol:
 
I've started to enjoy watching Joe Beermoney work for free. His customers absolutely love him. His electric company doesn't...
 
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  • #123
drove it to tomorrows job site tonight. Man was that ever terrifying :O Slow as freakin molasses and those huge tires bounce and shimmy like nobodies business. I have a 1/4 mile hill about a mile away from my house, that sucker pulled it at 15mph.. Lots of folks going to be cussing me.
 
Cussing you until they need a tree removed:lol:

How do you feel about doing tree work with it having moved around a few logs? Pretty good, I would guess. Crane work is something you will still be getting better at 20 years from now, that's the beauty of it. But going easy and careful in the beginning, no rushing knowing that there is a lot to learn, should be good. Only easy trees in the beginning.
 
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  • #125
We don't have the luxury of easy trees unfortunately. We will be rollin slow and easy though. Im going to climb tomorrow and Robbie is going to run it. Im thinking I will make snap cuts then come down and let him break it off and take it. We shall see. BIG job though with multiple big trees in a very tight area.

Heres some from today....

2.jpg 1.jpg
 
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