Grove AT635E

I dunno Carl, only that he's been doing it for the ten years or so that I have worked with him. He doesn't jam it in there, some light additional support, and placed after the outrigger pad is down on all four. Certainly the outermost point is well carrying the load. You could probably kick the mid way supports away with your foot when no load. I can't at all picture failure being a concern. Two older guys that often fill out our crew are long experienced retired crane ops, both mentors of the main guy now. I have to think that they'd object if there was risk involved.
 
Just passing along information... I have no dog in this hunt. :-))

Like suspending the load from the shackle above the ball... just because it's done and has been done for years doesn't make it proper.
 
Ha, you remembered that connection above the ball. Still in regular use. Your information is always welcomed. I'm mainly an observer when it comes to the crane arrangements, but I do make subtle enquiries based upon outside information. :) It does raise the question, when is something unconventional considered safe, when it has been utilised long term...often daily?
 
The point about using an ad hoc/impromptu (unapproved) support and it possibly compromising built in engineered load dispersal is a good one. I had not thought of that aspect before. A good example of what might seem like a good idea at the time....is not. As Burnham says....confidence is often the feeling we get before we fully understand the situation. Thanks for chiming in, Carl.
 
:)

My theory is if it's not adding appreciable support, what's the point? If it is adding support, then refer back to my original point of point loading the structure of the outrigger.

A hypothetical I came up with.... Imagine what would happen if the ground under the outrigger pad settled/gave way resting the load entirely on the mid span support. With the mid span support being snugged from the start, it could be hard to notice if the outrigger pad wasn't supporting the load. Being supported mid span changes the stability and chart of the crane, but the operator doesn't know his foundation has changed.



Again, I have no dog in the race or hunt; these are just things my mind came up with. Hopefully the shackle doesn't work harden the cable to the point of failure!
 
but the operator doesn't know his foundation has changed.
Click to expand...

It would be a cool option to have ground pressure psi gauges on each outrigger that could me monitored with just a glance. Additionally, it could have warning lights and sounds for when things happened.

You should develop that, Carl.
 
I like that Butch. That's a great idea. It would change with load and all but a change while static would could alert that something is wrong
 
A lot of aerial machines have switches in the outrigger pad to detect when the pad is getting light. It's a simple arrangement, a simple spring loaded affair that is compressed when the outrigger pad is in contact with the ground. My lift sets off an alarm if an outrigger gets light, although it doesn't inhibit aggravating functions... some machines do.


Knowing the ground PSI would be interesting to a numbers guy like me, but not overly useful a majority of the time for most folks (as far as I can tell). Depending on the outrigger style, a simple pressure transducer would directly tell you the PSI in the cylinder. Multiple the PSI by piston area and divide by your outrigger pad/cribbing. On an outrigger that moves in an arc, like on my lift, there would be some additional math involved to calculate the leverage ratio against the cylinder, which changes based on the position of the of the outrigger.

Interestingly it shows where the springs go, but not the springs.
Screen Shot 2015-11-01 at 11.37.15 AM.png
 
Carl, I've reviewed it a bit, seeing what crane related sights say about blocking under an outrigger beam, and it appears that your cautionary is well taken, possibly changing the fulcrum point on an outrigger beam is undesirable. A related issue is that flex in crane carriers has become an increasing element, as user demands for the industry to come up with lighter machines, has created the use of lighter materials and consequently more flex. Marketing strategies apparently compromise a degree of safety in this regard, or at least it is something that needs to be understood by users. Crane manufacturers aren't without some consideration to addressing the situation. I want to assume that some light blocking towards the end of the beam, is going to reduce flex to a degree, without compromising the weight carrying capacity at the pad. A single 4x4 beneath the beam is a very small bearing point, and observing the flex and movement at the pad with boom and cable weight shifts, I can only assume that when utilised prudently, the guys I work with see it as an aid. I want to emphasise that the block is only put in after the pad is lowered and the crane is stabilised fully. I'm going to further ask about it, thanks for the alert. One of the retired operators is very cool in explaining stuff to me.

I have a hard time seeing the ground giving away under an outrigger pad as an issue, when ground conditions are taken into consideration during set up.

You are also entirely correct about a shackle above the collar to be an "improper" technique, I fully as possible have looked into it. i always check out the cable, so far haven't observed any apparent compromise in it's strength, other than a slight bend at the one point. I wouldn't say that one particular crane operator doesn't push his limits. He is the only full time tree removal work crane operator that I know of, with his methods developed over many years. Right or wrong, that's how things have come about, and I would refrain from saying haphazardly without a well experienced perspective. It's probably a major reason that he brings in a lot of jobs that other guys won't take on, better knowing his range. Helps me pay those friggen bills. Cautions are always noted and appreciated, thanks!
 
No, Peter, I hadn't seen that one. Yikes! That fellow sure stuck around when the outrigger began to sink. Crane accidents aren't unheard of here either, one just toppled in Tokyo. No injuries fortunately, but two electric poles went with it and what a mess. No two operators seem to have the exact same approach.
 
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  • #488
IMG_0075.jpg job we are working on for a few days, 8 big poplars and a few other trows come out, very tight crane setup and I have a feeling we will be replacing some drainage pipes..... notice the drain we are bridging

IMG_0077.jpg IMG_0078.jpg
 
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There is a basement and I am worried as the fill doesn't seem too well compacted......

Big money job with big risks
 
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  • #496
We have 3 trees that are out of reach so we will have to rig them down and crane out once on ground closer to house.

Rich it has been wet as shit here, did you see the cribbing in the pic?? hoping its enough...
 
Fairly wet here as well. I would hope that's enough cribbing. I get leery around foundations. When I did construction we caved a basement in while backfilling with a skid steer. Super tight site you have there Paul. Wish I had that crane with me today
 
Paul, can you use steel plates/ beams for dunnage?

My CO rents plates outside of his lifting work, for spanning leach fields, etc.

Don't know if he uses them on soft ground.

Maybe have a video camera monitoring the inside the basement, with a screen outside.
 
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