Get a written contract--rant warning

[sotc]

Jay, my opinion is based off what I read of sean's posts. Had Sean said "hey man, you need to do this job for so and so, he's a good guy, i'd vouch for him" then maybe he would be somewhat responsible. O the other hand if he says " Hey, this guy needs a hand, if you want some extra work, call him and sort out the details for yourselves" then free and clear of any issue imo

 

[woodworkingboy]

I respect the opinions that there is no connection to the guy screwing the employee around and Sean covering it, I think it is a pretty standard way to look at it. I guess the nuances speak to me in another way, though. All I know, is that if I told a worker of mine to call someone that I had some previous relationship with, to enquire about work, even mentioned on a casual basis as I think Sean described, it would bother me quite a lot if it ended up being a bum deal for the employee. I'd also be pissed that someone used me to facilitate a corrupt deal, referring to the scumbag if he knew I would be talking to the employee about the possibility of work. My first inclination would be to try and arrange that the worker got his wages, both through possibly offering advice as how to collect, and then also making enquiries myself if the pay didn't materialize. In the end if the payment wasn't looking like it was in the cards, I'd think about offering to cover it, and weigh it against some other factors. It's my gut feeling about it. Not saying that it would be automatic to offer to cover the wages, but I would have to look at it at least. Now I had better keep quiet about it before someone suggests I pay the guy..

 

[sotc]

Haha, payup Jay!

Actually i'm with you on everything, I would consider paying him if I felt it was my doing and for sure try to help him get paid but in the end if he is a big boy and made the deal then it is up to him to finish it out.

 

[Bounce]

However big of a loser this guy may be, it's likely that he at least feels bad about stiffing you. If so, then I think you are more likely to get your money out of him simply by calling him every now and then and politely reminding him that you haven't forgotten. Guilt tripping isn't nearly as satisfying as intimidation, but it's safer and more effective.

 

[Burnham]

That's not bad advice at all...maybe more optimistic than I am, but also more likely to pan out for you.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Jay, to answer your question, or what I think you were asking, my employee Erik had met Aaron before this sidework opportunity (as I see it). I can't remember exactly when and where, but this wasn't the initial meeting.



Erik and I were at the gas station yesterday when a guy who primarily does stump grinding now came up and himself. I'd met him when he was working with Aaron on the upright tree end of things about a year ago. He said to me, "So Aaron's moved. Know where?". Turns out Aaron owes him hundreds of dollars, and he tells me that Aaron owes someone else money for working for him. Sounds like there is a club.

I shouldn't have felt sorry for his kids, but they weren't at fault. A guy that can't run his life in general at 40 isn't like to have good control over his reproduction, either. Too bad there isn't a test people have to pass before they can be impregnated/ impregnate. That's another rant, though.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Thanks for clarifying, Sean.

Seems like that boy is on the run, which often doesn't work out too well for yourself.

 

[SkwerI]

It's pretty bad news when you find out he owes everybody in town. If he pays anybody at all, it will be the one payment which will give him the most immediate return. That would be either somebody that he needs for another job tomorrow, or the person who is closest to beating him into a bloody pulp if he doesn't pay up. The rest of the debts are just background noise.

Again, a written contract isn't going to do one iota of good in this situation. Even if you had a written contract because you believe it will somehow protect you, there would be a lot of time and cost associated with enforcing it legally. And then all the judge can do is slap a lien on him (like that's going to mean anything). So a written contract would only cost you more money.

A man's word is his bond and if his word is no good then you don't associate with him any more. After a while you see which people work and hang in various circles. If you think somebody is trustworthy but he hangs with a bunch of untrustworthy people then you're probably wrong. The more you stick to associating only with people in the trustworthy circles then the less problems you have. Even with customers, the honest ones tend to refer you to other honest people. The conniving price shopper who keeps beating you down on your price and running you in circles will only refer you to other conniving cheapskates.

 

[stehansen]

Skwerl is correct. IMO you can try calling him for what he owes you but you are most likely wasting your time. You probably are not obligated to help out your employee but can if you wish. Lesson learned. I spent 29 years farming and all sorts of guys would form temporary partnerships for specific ventures and it usually worked out. But when a guy won't keep his word, the word soon got around and he was kind of left in the cold at least for those kinds of ventures. So maybe in the future check these guys out a little (if that is possible) before any business dealings.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Sad truth is that some folks are habitual liars. Two guys immediately come to mind. Their spouses may not be.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Can't squeeze blood from a turnip, even with a contract.
But you sure can exceed market price by trying to do so legally.

 

[Bodean]

If you're legit with a contract, you can put a lien on property can't you?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

YUP!

 

[SkwerI]

If your contract is with the property owner, yes. But not if your contract is with another tree guy.

 

[Bodean]

If your contract is with another treeguy,
it's like a thief ripping another thief, that's more like a Death Penalty isn't it?

If I'm subbing for someone, I generally don't leave until paid in full. either cash or gear.

 

[Old Monkey]

Tree guys are scum, I would trust them at all.

 

[High Scale]

What do you expect? He drinks Bud Lite........bound to be a 'see you next Tuesday.' I agree with Paul, shame you just can't give him a good hiding. And Nick, what sort of soppy, girly shite is that? Pop his tyres... Don't pop his tyres, bash the living f**k outta him! It's all some people understand......

Nice one Rob.