Gas damage to saw

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I agree this is just BS from start to finish. Its other reasons behind this as economical, political and industrial. But with marketing of global worming and fear of death of all life its a lot easier to sell...

Fuel argument in saws for environmental reasons is even bigger BS.
Another example is to decide that emissions of a saw should be this or that, then allow production of parts in china, assembly in Sweden and sold in US.
That saw used more airplane fuel before sales than it will during its life of use.
But yet is very important it runs so lean it runs hot and needs replacing.

It has nothing to do with environment, when you think about it a little bit more.

We can't produce parts here as the people doing it needs pay, manufacturing has laws to follow etc.
Better its done some place were they can do it for a fraction of the price, destroy community factory is in and make people work for nothing and get no help if they are sick from it.

All this to get a cheaper price on the latest environmentally correct saw. It may not run or ever do it well, but it has great emissions if it do...
 
Cobleskill said:
You burn it in your truck? Some people think the oil is bad for sensors and catalytic convertors. Dealers say 1 quart/1000 miles isn't excessive oil consumption so I figure what's it going to hurt.
Click to expand...

It happened very rarely and not at all now.

I started a thread asking about that and the general consensus was that it was harmless, especially on a full tank.
 
FWIW I work in an automotive engine factory .I know when they first built e-85 rated engines they had to change the formulation for the o-ring seals on fuel injectors because given enough time they did develope leaks .

By volume it takes about 40 percent more alcohol than gasoline to produce the same amount of power .The whole ethanol thing was a political football .The ethanol plants built in the USA usually go bankrupt in about two years then several conglomerates buy them up for about 20 cents on the dollar .I'm located in the midwestern corn belt of the USA .There are three ethanol plants within a 40 mile radius .I don't think any of them are now in operation .
 
You talk about cars, saws is another ball game completely as the fuel is not the same even though it is E-85.
There is another 15% and oils to add this equation + the materials used in saws vs cars.
 
If anyone is familiar with power boats, you might follow this a little better. A guy I know has a shop that repairs boats and restores old wooden boats. (Think Chris Crafts, etc.) I stopped in one day and picked up a bottle of StarTron fuel treatment. I asked him if it worked. He motioned for me to follow him into the shop. He picked up a hose. It was the hose that went from the fuel cap to the tank. It was probably three feet long and 2-2.5" in outside diameter with an inch to inch and a half inner diameter, so the walls were close to a half inch thick. Really heavy duty thing. He said "Check this out." He bent it and it was so weak that it literally split in half. He said that before ethanol he would only replace a couple a year and that THOSE were 20-30 years old. Now he's replacing them in boats less than five years old, and on boats that aren't stored on the water. He said that marina fuel is ethanol free, but the people that keep their boats at home usually fill up at the local gas station either on the way to the lake or on the way home. THAT fuel has ethanol. Its cheaper than marina fuel, but he said it absolutely drys out and destroys the hoses.
 
I am listening to Magnus on this. He has been trying to tell us for years it is the other additives, not that ethanol that is killing the rubber parts etc.
My fix for the ethanol was simple. Full synthetic mix. It also has a stabiliser in it that keeps the alcohol from separating. This would eliminate the lean out issues we had in the past. And water issues from condensation we had in the past. My maintenance costs went way down after switching to that and the better octane rated fuels. I use premium most the time.
I can tell you there is a difference in ethanol/alcohol content in our fuels at different times of the year by just the smell. Winter, more percentage.
I can tell you the cheaper fuels are crap. And sometimes they sell the bottom dredges of the tanks. Even my 4 strokes don't like it.
I had a real example of this with my little chipper. That Honda 24 horse will about run nice on anything I put in it. Except for a few of the cheaper fuel stations up here. I had to run for fuel once and get what I could get. I put it in that chipper, and it just started coughing, back firing... ran ugly. Had to drain the tank and do over. Ran fine with the more expensive Texaco or Chevron fuel.
Katy's car. You put cheap fuel in that, engine light comes on.. Better higher octane fuel.. light goes off. Coincidence? I would highly suspect, NOT.
 
You can definitely see that Jim. Tires don't last as long. O rings... Friggen Hose washers. Hell, rubber tie downs I have had new in the cab, in a paper bag, bad in a month, cracking. I rarely had them last less that a year under continued use.
 
FireFighterZero said:
The rubber parts that are sold now are junk.........plain junk.

We blame it on the fuel, because its political. While we were arguing, they made everything cheaper.
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Yes, they make a lesser product for more money. But that will not help in understanding problem. I'll try describing it like this then:
If your hose can hold water, it can hod up to any non aggressive liquid.
The alcylate fuel we use is not aggressive..
 
Since I'm a happy homeowner and don't need to burn fuel in big quantities, I usually buy stuff like THIS or THIS. It's ungodly expensive (~$20/gallon), but has ZERO nasty additives and maintains my warranty. Saws run super with it.

If I have a big job and need to make mix gas, I'm with Stephen--based on what I've read at the Madsen's "Treasure Trove of Saw Knowledge" (click on Fuel Mix): Stihl Ultra, High Octane Name Brand gas, and Stabil Storage. (I've read good things about Stabil Marine, but I haven't tried it.)
 
flashover604 said:
If anyone is familiar with power boats, you might follow this a little better. A guy I know has a shop that repairs boats and restores old wooden boats. (Think Chris Crafts, etc.) I stopped in one day and picked up a bottle of StarTron fuel treatment. I asked him if it worked. He motioned for me to follow him into the shop. He picked up a hose. It was the hose that went from the fuel cap to the tank. It was probably three feet long and 2-2.5" in outside diameter with an inch to inch and a half inner diameter, so the walls were close to a half inch thick. Really heavy duty thing. He said "Check this out." He bent it and it was so weak that it literally split in half. He said that before ethanol he would only replace a couple a year and that THOSE were 20-30 years old. Now he's replacing them in boats less than five years old, and on boats that aren't stored on the water. He said that marina fuel is ethanol free, but the people that keep their boats at home usually fill up at the local gas station either on the way to the lake or on the way home. THAT fuel has ethanol. Its cheaper than marina fuel, but he said it absolutely drys out and destroys the hoses.
Click to expand...

Ok, flashover604, interesting post, interesting anecdote. Picking nits with the story, however, the guy never answered your question about the StarTron fuel treatment. You asked him if it worked, and he showed you a crumbling hose. So now I know he suspects that ethanol causes problems, but I still don't know if he thinks StarTron will prevent the issues. Maybe you just left that part of the story out?

Tim
 
Tim, according to him, the StarTron does work. It somehow counteracts the effects of the ethanol according to him and the writing in the bottle. I ended up just getting fuel at the nearest marina now for my small engines and motorcycles. He used the rotten hose to explain to me the effects of ethanol on the hoses and compare the life expectancy of the old hoses with no ethanol to the new ones with ethanol.
 
Spellfeller said:
Since I'm a happy homeowner and don't need to burn fuel in big quantities, I usually buy stuff like THIS or THIS. It's ungodly expensive (~$20/gallon), but has ZERO nasty additives and maintains my warranty. Saws run super with it.

If I have a big job and need to make mix gas, I'm with Stephen--based on what I've read at the Madsen's "Treasure Trove of Saw Knowledge" (click on Fuel Mix): Stihl Ultra, High Octane Name Brand gas, and Stabil Storage. (I've read good things about Stabil Marine, but I haven't tried it.)
Click to expand...
Does anyone know what fuel this is? Why it works is stated, but not what fuel it is.
There is many synthetic products, petroleum products and mixes. Would be fun to know what this is.
 
Magnus said:
Does anyone know what fuel this is? ...Would be fun to know what this is.
Click to expand...

Magnus, I tracked down an MSDS form for the 50:1 TruFuel...
https://www.menards.com/msds/114217_001.pdf

Page 2 says:
Naphtha (petroleum), full-range alkylate, butane-contg. 50 - 60% by weight
isopentane 10 - 20% by weight
pentane 10 - 20% by weight
toluene 5 - 10% by weight
xylene 5 - 10% by weight
ethylbenzene 1 - 5% by weight
 
Thank you! This was a big help in understanding.
So there is alkylate fuel in US!
But is it aggressive?

In the Aspen Fuel we use there is 98% by weight Alkane (Isopentan, Isohexaner, n-butan, Isobutan, Isoheptan, Isooktaner, Isononaner)
Less than 0,1% of the aggressive stuff like toluene, xylene, ethylbenzene..
http://www.aspen.se/Guider/Guide_Sv..._mellan_Aspen_alkylatbensin_och_vanlig_bensin

This compared to the gas we have in stations that is 41% Alkane.
 
Very nice, Magnus!

Here's a LINK to photos from a get-together of chainsaw nuts I attended when I lived in Indianapolis. Some pretty amazing stuff was on display!
 
Tim_B. said:
Ok, flashover604, interesting post, interesting anecdote. Picking nits with the story, however, the guy never answered your question about the StarTron fuel treatment. You asked him if it worked, and he showed you a crumbling hose. So now I know he suspects that ethanol causes problems, but I still don't know if he thinks StarTron will prevent the issues. Maybe you just left that part of the story out?

Tim
Click to expand...

flashover604 said:
Tim, according to him, the StarTron does work. It somehow counteracts the effects of the ethanol according to him and the writing in the bottle. I ended up just getting fuel at the nearest marina now for my small engines and motorcycles. He used the rotten hose to explain to me the effects of ethanol on the hoses and compare the life expectancy of the old hoses with no ethanol to the new ones with ethanol.
Click to expand...


Hey, flashover604, thanks a lot for this answer. Much appreciated. Buying your fuel at the marina is a great idea, I think, for any and all engines, probably. Nice if you can get it. Thanks.

Tim
 
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