Firewood

[candoarms]

My firewood rack is built to hold as much wood as I can possibly stack in it. I often run out before the snow melts. My primary rack is 40 feet long x 4 feet wide. I stack the firewood to a height of 7 feet. I've never attempted to figure out how many actual cords it holds....I just know that it's not enough. I have to go out to the wood pile and get more each winter.

I guess it's easy enough...multiply the length, by width, by height, in feet, then divide by 128.

Joel

 

[Levi]

Joel, no EAB where you are?

Same here Holmen, 4x4x8 with gaps large enough for a squirrel to pass through but not a house cat.

 

[flushcut]

When I stack my Canuckian firewood a cord is 4 ft X 4 ft X 8 ft. Not this face cord stuff that some try to pass stacked along their fence lol.

That's the same here 4x4x8'

 

[treebilly]

My "face cord" stack is 16'x5'6"x18"(give or take, it is cut by eye). Well that's what it was when I sold it. Now I split for me, my parents, and a few nieghbors who buy it by the truck load( they load and haul). Can't remember offhand what I got for a burner but it's way to big for my house. In a cold winter it's 8-10 cord. This winter has been 3 so far. Just tossed another wheel barrel load in the basement as we have lows in the 20's for a few nights.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Is Jack Pine a pitchy Pine? A little pitch sure helps get things going. Because of the huge number of logs that are available from the borer insect infestation in my area, boilers specifically designed to burn the heavy pitch Pine are becoming more common. The same species of tree that they used the Pitch from to fuel the Zero aircraft during WW2. There was actually an operation doing the processing just up the road. My understanding is that the higher burning temperatures aren't good for boilers not designed for Pine. In town here the municipality is building a new hot spring place, part will be the naturally heated water, but apparently the outdoor bath will be supplemental heated by a Pine burning boiler. Around thirty grand for the boiler i was told, and the wood requirement per day is about four to five cubic meters. Apparently some physically or mentally impaired individuals will be doing all the splitting , creating work for those folks.

 

[treebilly]

I'm not sure on the pine pitchyness. I burn some pine and spruce, but you can't convince people around here it's safe. I do remember that my wood burner instructions said to start with pine to prime the chimney.

 

[candoarms]

Levi,

No EAB here yet, though we do have a few flathead borers that attack the Ash trees.

I do a lot of work on farmsteads around the area. I clean out rows of trees, removing the dead stuff for my customers. It's hard work. The tree rows are unkept and are packed full of deadfall. I keep everything that isn't rotted.

I've since moved into urban tree removal work, so I don't get as much firewood as I once did, but when the tree work slows down each Fall, I'll call a few farmers and pick up a few shelterbelt cleaning jobs.

I couldn't do this without my equipment. I have an F-450 dump truck and a 16' dump trailer. My little Kubota B2920 does all the heavy work for me. I can harvest and haul home about 5 cords per day. I'll spend the winter months cutting it to length and splitting it.

I have a PTO powered cordwood saw (Buzz saw) mounted on the tractor's 3-point hitch fitted with a 31" diameter blade. That makes quick work of the smaller branches, up to about 10" in diameter. My wood furnace burns logs up to 21" long, so that's what I set the guide to on the buzz saw. The conveyor was a huge improvement to the operation. The conveyor is powered by the splitter, via a power beyond valve. When the splitter is working, the conveyor is idle. When the splitter finishes the cycle, the conveyor runs until the splitter is put back to work. Great little system. I love it.

Joel

 

[woodworkingboy]

Good firewood isn't cheap here if you have to buy it, so more folks have resigned themselves to burning Pine. What I hear about Pine is that it becomes safe or safer when extremely well seasoned. I suppose it's true to a certain degree, but I've seen pitch still coming out of wood that was in rafters over a hundred years old.

 

[Levi]

We have the native flatheads as well, now EAB is coming in. LOTS of firewood but it's quarantined...

Sounds like you have a good setup there. Some friends of mine just acquired a block buster, quite a machine! There is a good bit of tourists and camping in our area and they make a good dollar selling wood bundles made from a homemade bundler as well as cord wood to the locals.

 

[candoarms]

Woodworkingboy,

I've heard some mighty bad words regarding some of the outdoor boilers that are constructed of stainless steel. I guess that stainless stuff cracks due to heat stress. Mild steel is a far better way to go when burning high heat woods, such as pine.

Our summers are so short up here that we can't really get the pine to cure. I've burned Spruce, but it has to cure for several years before going into the furnace. It isn't worth the wait. I harvest dead wood. It cures fast after it's been cut and split. Two years in the pile and she's ready to go.

Joel

 

[Levi]

Good firewood isn't cheap here if you have to buy it, so more folks have resigned themselves to burning Pine. What I hear about Pine is that it becomes safe or safer when extremely well seasoned. I suppose it's true to a certain degree, but I've seen pitch still coming out of wood that was in rafters over a hundred years old.

From what I know the problem with pine is major creosote build ups leading to chimney fires as well as lots of soot.

In the house I grew up in we had an old wood burning cook stove which was also our primary source of heat. Pine was really the only option and man did our house get sooty!

 

[woodworkingboy]

The first year when i moved in, I had to scrounge around for firewood and about all i could get was Pine, a lot of it poorly seasoned. The pipe had an elbow in it then. I couldn't believe how much residue (creosote?) collected in the horizontal part of the chimney. It seemed like I had to clean it out at least once a month. A stove guy told me that when the smoke cools, the creosote is left. I guess that double walled insulated pipes help, they tell me it's nice.

 

[candoarms]

Levi,

Pine pitch is a major contributing factor with chimney fires. However, there are several other things that contribute to this.

One of the worst things is burning at low temps. The smoke from the fire needs to be hot as it goes up the chimney. If not, the smoke will cool and condense on the way up, causing it to stick to the chimney walls. This buildup then creates a source of fuel. So the next time the fire is burned hot, the fuel that has accumulated in the chimney catches fire.

There are some ways to monitor this. A flue temp gauge helps monitor the flue and chimney temperatures. It's best to regulate the chimney temp to somewhere between 400 and 500 degrees. Lower than that, you'll get soot and creosote buildup. Higher than that and you'll end up with the soot catching fire.....chimney fire.

Joel

 

[Levi]

From what I know, the creosote is the white cakey stuff.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Candoarms, my situation seems to bear that out. When i leave the shop at night i shut down the air intake and close the damper. If there was much of a fire left it usually will keep burning slowly for awhile at low temperature, sometimes a long while (home made stove). In the morning I can sometimes see some creosote residue that has collected under the edge of the pipe at the collar. I can smell it as well. A hot fire that has burned itself out doesn't leave any residue.

 

[squisher]

Pine is safe as any wood if burned properly. Any wood if not cured properly or burned improperly will lead to a situation where a chimney fire is a possibility. I've burned tons of,pine with zero issue. Generally greater than 20% MC is going to cause problems with creosote and lack of efficiency in a modern stove. Where people get into trouble with pine is either wet or smouldering a fire trying to extend burn times and then getting a rip roaring fire going on a reload or leaving the air open to long.

A full cord is 4x8x4 and generally a face cord is 1/3 of that 4x8x16"s

15 full cord a winter is a ton of work. I'd be looking to maximize my burning efficiency and insuring I was burning properly in a modern reburner or cat stove.

Burning without a thermometer is a fools errand in this day and age. I have a stovetop thermometer and a stovepipe thermometer. As well as a second stovepipe thermometer that reads remotely upstairs that has a built in alarm you can set in case you forget to turn the air down soon enough and approach over fire. I can pretty much guarantee that if you aren't using a thermometer you are burning to hot at times or to cool at times. Both are inefficient and can be dangerous.

 

[squisher]

There are three levels of creosote from flaky light to caked on glossy black tar. Creosote starts to form around 230f and lower so as candoarms mentioned burning cool causes creosote to condense in the flue/chimney. Wet wood contains more creosote and burns cooler. A double edged sword.

Catalytic stoves are a whole other animal.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Tar is the one I know. A funny bad smell to it, nothing like the smell of the stuff that they have by the same name to preserve wood. I can get my stove pipe red hot with no fire risk, nothing flammable near it and it goes through a slate roof. That's how I get rid of the creosote. burn it out. The creosote is probably on fire in there, i can hear it making funny sounds, kind of a sizzling popping. It puts out some good heat.

 

[treebilly]

I agree that pine is safe. Dry seasoned wood of any kind will produce good heat. Even with "good" firewood you can get creosote build up if you smother a fire and let it smolder.
Creosote is a black tar like substance. It can dry and become a black flakey substance. The white powder on chimney walls is good. It means you're burning hot enough to keep it clean. Elbows in the flue pipe are a place for creosote to build as well as the areas with temperature change. The roof line of the chimney is an area that'll build up quick

 

[squisher]

1st degree is light and flaky and produced even when things are burned properly. It is easily cleaned out of the chimney with a normal chimney brush.

2nd degree is black and shiny but still flaky and is usually a sign of not running hot enough. It can be cleaned with a brush usually pretty effectively.

3rd degree is black and runny or your 'tar'. It is extremely volatile and is the common cause of chimney fires. It burns extremely hot. It is often caked on and impossible to remove with s normal chimney cleaning brush. 'Chains' are commonly used to cpeffectively clean 3rd degree creosote. It is from to wet of wood and or poor burning practices.

 

[woodworkingboy]

In well seasoned Pine, like the rafters, the pitch seems to stay permanently around knots. I made some tables for a restaurant once out of ancient resawn Pine slabs. They didn't have any budget for anything else. There were knots. I'd say that it took like about two years for the pitch to stop coming out around knots on hot days. Until then, the tables could be kind of sticky.

 

[Levi]

I agree pine is certainly safe. We never had a chimney fire, too bad. I have seen some bad ones though.

 

[squisher]

Fir is like that too, and it's the choice firewood around here. No one complains that the pitch in fir is burning down homes. Seriously I think from monitoring actual temps now that the big problem people get into with pine is grossly over firing their stoves/chimney, thus igniting any available creosote. Pine burns hot and fast, it's less dense and so releases its energy quicker and can really run away temp wise in no time.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I'm not surprised to hear that creosote is carcinogenic. The stuff in stoves smells like it could not be good for your health when it is still soft and gooey.

 

[Levi]

Where I lived in the mountains you could go in the woods and collect fatback wood. Hands down the best fire starter I've had. You could hold a bic lighter to a chunk and it would lite right up.