emergency jobs abuse of ropes, who really pays?

[thattreeguy]

Question
I did an emergency job the other day, and had to lift an approx 30" dia log off of a home.
Using only a 5/8 block on a dead eye sling up top, a 3/4 whoopie with a large shackle at the base and a 4x4 ford 350 loaded down with firewood to keep the bed on the ground on the drive way.
Ideally it would have been a crane job, but access sucked and we would have cut down a lot of trees just to get in.
My friends mini ex wouldnt be able support the log on the slope and couldnt let it down if it did fully clear the bldg.
So buckadoo , myself and another fellow set the above mentioned gear and pulled like hell with some great cutting done by myself in the wind, and buckadoo on the ground, we flew that tree off the home.
My question is because it is an insurance job and the 5/8 x 300' stable braid was fiddle string tight, and took the shock load of a 2500lb log, plus the pull from the truck, it is now untrustworthy. It already had a thin spot about 70' in, but its worse now, i wont trust it for zero impact projects anymore.
Would you charge for that gear to be replaced?
Pro rated based on the previous wear?
Its a fraction of what a crane woulda cost.
Anyone have experience with this, any need to show the rope to the ins guys to justify its replacement.
Or just slap it on the bill without blinking?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

As you are dealing with an insurance Co. you could try and slap it on the bill. I have a rule in my house though. Disclosure. When I go to a customer and I sense, see, or find a potential problem. I include it in my estimate. If I see a job I am going to use Mega chain due to dirt and rocks.. The customer buys the excessive wear. Same with rope. I see where my ropes are going to take abuse. They buy new ones.... Period. I ruin a rope on a job.. they own it. And when I leave the old rope there, and charge them for a new one.. They don't seem upset, after all, I left the old one with them. It's a tangible thing. They will probably use the old one for tying down garbage on the way to the dump or something. Me, I ride or tie new rope.. Works out for everyone. After the fact is a bit tough. But I bet you could bill the Ins. Co. for the rope. Replacement value BTW. Take pics of the rope. Or cut out the damage. Both.

 

[NeTree]

If you feel you had to "sacrifice" the rope to get the job done, I'd just cram it into the bill, without mentioning it in detail.

I've never done an insurance bill that had to be detailed enough for them to know the difference, anyways.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Did I mention I have two boxes of labeled saved stuff that I keep for 5 year on insurance and HO charged out shat that failed or is damaged? Maybe I am just paranoid.. LMAO
I have been payed on all I have charged out thus far

 

[wiley_p]

It goes in the bill. No different than any other expense. I've had a difficult time over the years getting that point across when subcontracting for tree companies and it was me that was trying to explain how MY equipment was damaged, on THEIR job.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Just curious, so how the equipment was damaged is not a factor, whether used wisely or not? Just the cost of doing business?

 

[wiley_p]

Exactly, the cost of doing business. You the contractor want to do something the hard way, with my gear. It should not be a cost borne by me. Either pay for the service or get your own shit.

 

[lumberjack]

If equipment sacrificed to do the job, then I include it. If equipment was lost due to opperator error, I don't include it.

I give my insurance bids before I do the work, and I'dda included whatever expense I would incure in lost equipment from the get go. One job bought me a reel of 1/2" and 3/4" Stable braid.

 

[PCTREE]

Hey Thattreeguy, its cool to see some folk realize that the rope is damaged by the load and dont just keep using it till it kills somebody which is a very real posibility in our line of work......

I personally prefer Cursed's method of giving the rope to the customer and charging exact cost for replacement as it shows integrity however in real life where integrity isnt valued NETree's way of just putting it in the bill will probably cause less headache...

 

[lumberjack]

Plus the insurance company doesn't care, you aren't getting paid for the time it takes to order the rope, or the time you spend without it.

If the insurance company or customer is digging through your records, you've already messed up.

 

[thattreeguy]

I thought i'd just slide it in ,
but when someone has a 1600 dollar tree (upright bid 2 months ago
become a 4100 dollar tree sunday evening
in the wind , now on top of the 2 story home and hung up in another tree, its now another creature,
but 2x's the cost might make em flinch
it was done in a hurry because it was a judges law library that the tree landed on
IT'S AN I TOLD YOU SO TREE as well
the family argued over it's removal so it was postponed
i dont want to hose them ,but i had 3 men out on sun evening for 5 hrs and 3 men for 10 hours monday, plus 3 hours of faller being onsite and 7 hrs of climber onsite all monday...thats a lot of billable labor hours
all at normal crew rental rate per man
the only increase is the 1st hour of the job $300. is the only extra charge and it is to mobilize , it is used as a 100 dollar bill for each guy who had to interupt their day to help me
thanks for the opinions so far

 

[Burnham]

To me, it's just one more cost to do that particular job. Bill with it included, no need to itemize precisely, but if you wish to, do so...nothing wrong with it either way.

 

[Frans]

I charge for puckering.

If the job goes smoothly, fine. But sometimes the job does not go fine. It is a matter of statistics really. Win some lose some, but I still need to protect my business no matter how the job goes.

 

[Blinky]

If you new the rope would be sacrificed going in, it's cost of services which should be billed to the customer, but it should also have been in the estimate. Was the rope new?

Adding it on after is still fair game but they may deny it.

Before I was doing tree work I paid an arborist to remove some big hangers for me. When we were settling up he mentioned that he cut a $100 rope in the process. I paid him $50 extra without him really asking.

To me, rope is an expense item that is used up providing a service. I try to have a little bit in every job that covers those kind of expenses.

 

[lumberjack]

Adding it to a bid is a nogo, for me. I do bids, not estimates. If it wasn't included in the bid, it's human error's fault which isn't billable.


Like Frans, I charge for puckering. If I cause more damage, I'm responsible, and that's the way I like it because that's billable.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

If it's my fault, hey its my fault. I'll eat it. It's just part of the job. Otherwise I charge extra for the abuse. I have customers that want ALAP in rocks... Guess what they pay extra for

 

[gf beranek]

Emergency work is often done at some sacrifice by either party, but that's the nature of emergency work,,, and insurance lawyers to figure out.

I can honestly say, "In all the emergency jobs I have done every party has benefited."

 

[Bodean]

It goes in the bill. No different than any other expense.

Ditto

 

[stehansen]

Normally I would eat it but seeings how you saved them all that money by not bringing in the crane. I would think they could buy you another rope.

 

[gf beranek]

Yeah, you just figure the costs in. For me the cost of rope has always been the least expense of doing business.

Though I will admit I was present on most jobs where my ropes were being used.

One job I didn't attend, I recall my bull rope came back in two pieces.

Fancy that, hey?

 

[cory]

 

[thattreeguy]

i billed em for it, all the hours and expenses, with a 10% disc for repeat business,
I appreciate all the replies,
human error is always on us, but in an emergency some gear is going to be mis used to make the objective happen, and its only a small detail and price to pay in the big picture of my house is under a tree

i like to replace questionable equipment if i can so that no bad events occur due to gear failure

 

[CurSedVoyce]

i like to replace questionable equipment if i can so that no bad events occur due to gear failure

Damn straight