Climbing for an unknown entity

[woodworkingboy]

Some person left a message on my answering machine about doing tree work. I called him up and he said that he had heard that i have a big saw with a long bar, and he was doing some large Zelkova tree removals, and would I do the cutting at the base, required at least a meter length bar. Sure, whatever, and told him my fee. OK, but would I also do the limb removals? Was he using a crane? "Yes". A few details were forthcoming on who the crane outfit was, but I told him that I would have to see the situation before being able to agree to the work.

Our Zelkovas get enormous and heavy, and I have seen a few less that stellar performances by crane guys. Do they have the required cable(s) is something I have to see, and the level of experience, able to discuss the approach.

The guy on the phone seemed a tiny irritated that I wouldn't say yes or no about the limbs. I told him that I would stop by where the trees are and look at them, otherwise I wound't know anything else until the 16th when he has scheduled it. I guess I could call him back and beg for details.

I'm stoked to get calls out of the blue like this, it is pretty rare, but what's up is all pretty unknown. He has already scheduled a crane, or I would suggest the usual guy I work with. I mentioned him to the guy on the phone, to which he replied, "Maybe next time".

You guys climbing freelance or other work, do you run into this kind of thing too? Do you work with unknown crane operators? It wouldn't be the first time for me, but usually the jobs are arranged by people who know the work, so they have a connection with crane people who understand what is required.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[SkwerI]

It's your life on the line so you absolutely have the right to say yes or no based on your personal confidence in the people to whom you are entrusting your life. If some guy on the phone calling out of the blue wants a firm answer without providing specific details on the people and equipment then the answer will have to be 'NO' until your personal safety standards are met. Period.

And if the last guy was capable of doing it then he wouldn't be calling you, would he? In situations like this there is ALWAYS a catch.

 

[PCTREE]

I have had some REALY bad experiences with unknown crane operators, the last resulted in one of my workers breaking his arm and cost me about $6k. I work with 2 operators only now.

 

[cory]

Good question. I don't freelance but if I did, I'd probably be leery to do a big crane removal for an unknown guy with an unknown crane op...the difference between a cake job and a nightmarish one which could be hazardous to your health, is the op.

 

[SkwerI]

If there's any question at all, then just tell him you will only do it if your crane guy is used. Then let him stew on it for a while. You are the one in the driver's seat regardless of what the guy on the phone wants you to think. Don't let him pressure you into a bad situation. It's your life, you can maintain control over how the job goes down. He needs you more than you need him.

 

[cory]

I work with 2 operators only now.

Good call. I work with only 3 ops, they are all excellent, save for the rare lesser ops on totally simple jobs only.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Thanks, definitely caution is required. I assume the reason why he called me was to do the cutting at the base, the work above more an after thought. Possibly he has a usual climber but he wants to save on costs? The Zelkovas can be extremely valuable when sold at auction, a hundred grand for a tree is not unheard of. I assume that he thinks he has some good ones, so wants a clean cut at the base, hence the big saw. Most guys will get by with what they have, takes two hours or so of their messing around with it, plus the trimming after.

 

[Burnham]

I'm with Skwerl, full agreement with his points.

 

[flushcut]

I think I would do my homework on this guy just to be sure. I am not saying he is a hack or anything just do some checking for me it's really odd that a tree guy does not have a long bar especially when a crane is involved.

 

[SkwerI]

Thank you, Burnham.

Jay, be flattered but temper that with the knowledge that this guy doesn't give two hoots about you, and has already been dismissive of your concerns over the crane. That's a huge red flag for me so I would proceed with caution and some very firm ground rules. Don't be afraid to walk if he thinks your concerns are 'silly'. The less he cares about your concerns means the less he cares about you and your safety. Once he sees you in action doing it your way then he may gain some respect for you and your skills. If you do it his way and manage not to get killed then you're just a flunky with a saw.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Excellent advise, thanks. Real good point about doing a job for someone once, and I totally agree with it. Once you work for someone and they get an understanding of your capability, it can make for a much better relationship and the additional talking power is valuable. One thing, and you guys will find this funny. He said to me, "Can you please sharpen your chain before you come". I thought he was asking me to sharpen his chain, but after we got that straightened out, I told him that he never has to make such a request to me, I do this work for a living, it's a given. He laughed...not sure exactly what he was laughing at though.

 

[Bodean]

I worked like a "blind date" once.

This Latino guy, we spoke spanish all day. His crew were mainly night waiters with loafers on.
I thought i was in Egypt.

Anyway, he had two different climbers chicken out on theis 100' fir leaning over the wires.
Those two climbers left a stub for every limb. It was murder. I chunked that thing down in firewood.

Lost my pull line too, all for $300 bucks, they wanted me to stay and rip it all up too, i was like, nope.

 

[Old Monkey]

You have to watch yourself, they could be a band of evil ninjas. You should have mentioned off hand that Chinese martial arts are the best to see if that set him off.

 

[sotc]

Ask your regular crane guy about the new crane guy, almost guarenty he will know something about him

 

[brendonv]

I don't enjoy the freelance thing for the fact of you never know who you are working with, or how they work, until you are in the tree. By that time it's hard to walk, and your truck is sitting at the road with your name on it, making them look good. I got a call the other day, out of the blue. He asked me how much I want, I said $65/hr. He tells me that's expensive, he can get guys for 30$/hour. Then he said for $65 I have to show him my insurance and WC. I guess if I was charging $30 it wouldn't be a big deal. Come to find out it's some kid with a pick up truck, he himself has no ins. or WC. Just cuttin' a tree.

I turned down a lot of climbing jobs just for this reason. Unless I surely know who you are, or worked with you in the past. It's your ass on the line, and your life, like other's have mentioned. Crane or no crane, it's all the same in the end.

There's a reason they are calling us, as we are good at what we do, and they are incapable. I feel in the end I am just bailing them out of their problems, just a reason why I get frustrated with it at times.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I went and looked at the job, some massive trees with multi large leads. Have to grab some pics. I called up some buds but nobody had ever heard of the guy. I telephoned him to say that I had seen the trees, thought I would feel him out. Apparently my hesitation yesterday had inspired him to rent a lift to go along with the crane, and he and "six guys who needed work" were going to tackle it starting the day after tomorrow. He only wants me to cut the trees at the base some days later, looks to be about a half day's work or so. That's cool, less than ten minutes away and a first experience with him and his people, and the crane operator. It does look like an interesting job, in addition to the big Zelkovas, there are a bunch of big Cryptomerias, look to be in the 120-150 year old range. The crane can snuggle up close, but they still need to be topped. He asked me what type of tree work I do, I explained and he told me to be careful. He seems alright.

Think I'll stick my nose in after they get started, see how they do. I might want to get invited sooner. It is the kind of job where it can't be faked, somebody would have to know what they are doing. With luck a good connection for the future.

 

[SkwerI]

Well played, Jay. "6 guys who need the work" verifies my first impression of the guy. He might turn out to be a good contact but so far it's not looking promising. Oh well, make a couple dollars for running your big saws on the ground where you have an escape path.

 

[Cobleskill]

I usually find my first impression isn't too far off the mark. I worked for a couple guys I thought maybe I shouldn't. Turns out I shoulda walked. Work that way for you guys?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Yeah, the saw needs to see some daylight. I am relieved to get my part in the work squared away. Would have loved that job with the folks I usually work with, I mean really good sized trees. The six people needing work as he put it, might be misleading. I did ask him if they had tree experience, to which he said yes. It should take about five minutes to make a good assessment once they get started.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[No_Bivy]

set up a camera for when he flips the crane with the bottom nugget.....run

 

[woodworkingboy]

Don't make it sound so exciting. Not likely to flip, I'm informed he is having a twenty ton machine come over to do the pics, and it can park next to the tree, similar to in your avatar. I don't know exactly where he plans to lay the trees down, if they are closing the street or not, but there is a field about thirty feet away. He can walk it over.

 

[bill22]

I did an unknown job before, crane operator almost took my head off by trying to jerk the limb up as I was cutting. After that I won't unless I use one of my crane guys. The company that had the job [I won't name them] ended up going out of business after one of their "climbers" tried to butt catch a large lead and took out a shed and a 3 phase wire down in Melbourne. I won't do it again, unless I see the job before hand,except for 2 guys I do work for.

 

[woodworkingboy]

A few pics of the trees to be removed: Four and a half foot bar. A slow grower, possibly in the range of about two hundred years old. I have taken out some larger ones, but the bigger one here is getting on to decent size for these parts. It is really hard to know what the condition of the wood inside is, rot can be pretty common. Perhaps you guys can get a sense about it. These are right on the edge of an old property, next to the street.

If the largest one is free of damage and tight grained, I would expect it to bring in the neighborhood of thirty grand at auction. A very treasured wood, and the bigger ones are becoming pretty scarce now. The bark splintering off like that is common in the older trees, and not a sign of ill health. Quite hard wood, a beautiful golden color. I hope that they will be bringing in a priest to give a blessing over these.

Interestingly, the old house on the property still has sliding paper screens instead of windows, well maintained, not a tear in them. You never see that anymore in colder regions. Possibly an oil stove inside, but likely just a charcoal brazier, an elderly couple still living the old lifestyle. Must be a cold bugger inside, but they say people who live like that are strong and don't easily catch colds. Coincidently, a number of years ago I cut up a Persimmon tree there that had fallen over in high winds, in exchange for the wood. I had spoken with the old guy about repairing his antiquated wooden rice hulling machine, but it was too far gone for practicality.I have often wondered if they were still living that way, and I see that they are....even older now.

 

[Tree Reb]

Nice chair. One of yours?

That timber sure is worth a lot, can anything be done with the smaller wood?

I hate to see old trees just chipped.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Thanks....yes, one of my standard models. Oh yeah, lots can be done with the larger limbs for woodworking material, a great turning wood for example.