Business Question

rangerdanger

rangerdanger

TreeHouser
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,471
Location
Lexington, KY
Hey guys, just looking for a bit of help regarding some business questions. I've been talking to Carl and hopefully I'll be the proud owner of his mini within the next few weeks. Anyways, along with the mini I'll be picking up a small trailer, and would like to try and start my own little side business, but I'm not quite sure how to exactly go about it. Its something I've wanted to do for awhile, and I have a few customers, but nothing to really support me. So I guess right now my questions would be,

1. How should I first go about advertising and such. Dad's hopefully gonna help pass the word along, and pass me some smaller jobs, but besides that, what can I be doing?

2. What do I need to do paperwork wise to start it up? Sure there must be some forms or such that I should fill out.

3. Any tips/advice anyone can offer would be great.
 
Every state is different. You may need a state license or certification. Most likely a city business license in each town you work in, business insurance. Thats a good start
 
Good luck, Adrian.

Tough question; where to begin?

Advertising: The local circulars have always been a good catch, for me.

Paperwork: Whatever your area deems necessary. (Business license, etc.)

Advise: Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Let it build itself. Open a separate account for this business, and keep that money apart from "your" money.
 
Check and see if the Small Business Authority or SBA has any workshops available your area. In Idaho all I had to do was get licensed with the State for around $100 and do that I had to first get a tax pay ID # from the IRS. The State will likely have a business name database so you can make sure whatever name you chose is exclusively yours. You could go pirate for a while though. How legit do yu want to be?
 
Congratulations!! My suggestion is to continue to stay employed else where for as long as possible while your business grows. (2-5 years??) Slowly build your "tool box" and put everything you make back into the business during this time. I would also suggest studying forestry in college or getting certified as an arborist. This will obviously help you with your knowledge base and also give you confidence when interacting with potential customers about tree health. I have a degree in forestry and I really wish I had a minor in business even though that thought was the furthest thing from my mind while in college. In my opinion doing the tree work is the easiest part of owning a successful tree service. Stay small and stay positive. You can do it!!!!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Yeah, I'm still gonna stay employed with Dad for awhile, this is gonna be more of a weekend thing for now. Also working towards getting my CA, should have it here fairly soon.

As far as legit, I'd like it to be legit as possible, but I can pirate it for a few.

Thats the other thing I was gonna ask as well, what should I do about insurance?
 
I assume you will be hanging a shingle in Lexington if your dad will be passing your name about.
Here is the Small Business Development centre in your area. They have a lot to offer to get you started. Probably have all the forms you will need as well. http://ksbdc.org/
The Chamber Of Commerce should also have the paper work. I down loaded this for you....

View attachment Small Business Lexington.pdf

Here is their web site...

http://www.commercelexington.com/resources

Ask your bank what all you will need for opening an account in the business name. Ask your news paper about publishing your DBA or FBN...
Doing Business As/Fictitious Business Name.
Once you have a plan of action and paper work started, get some cards printed and signs for your work vehicle.
Start knocking on doors. Check in with local insurance company agents, hardware stores, Realtor's etc. Leave them cards and introduce yourself with a handshake. As if you can put up a card holder... Any bulletin boards around... Should stick some cards and fliers up there as well.. Start small and work up. Build it bigger as you grow. The advise about working elsewhere while you develop yours is good advise.

Hope this helps Adrian. You're a go getter from what I have seen here the past few years. You should do well. People really take to you as well from my take on your accomplishments in the home town.
 
You clearly have what it takes in this business. You got the fire in you. As long as you have a sense of money management, the rest will fall into place over time. Get an insurance policy. I have a few pointers from you, however, I have far less smarts than many of the guys on here. Don't give yourself away. If you are going to dangle on a half inch rope with a running chainsaw, get paid accordingly. It's real easy when you are young and froggy to cut your own throat just to feel the thrill of locking your own work. Don't do it. Charge what you know the work is worth deep down in your heart. If you don't get the work, no biggie, there's plenty of other trees out there. The other thing, and I speak from experience, don't let people push you around because of your age. I was out on my own full tilt running my own tree service at age 21. People often tried to twist my wrist on things because I was young and they felt I could be easily persuaded. They often tried sweet talking me down, tried squeezing in more work after I bid it, or tried dangling the carrot of promising all the work to come if I'd cut them a deal. Be aware of that my friend and stand your ground. Again, there are lots of trees out there.
 
rangerdanger said:
.

Thats the other thing I was gonna ask as well, what should I do about insurance?
Click to expand...

I've noticed this odd tendency in life, someone usually makes an observation before something bad happens. So when someone asks "are you going to need a lowering line for that piece?" I say yes even if I was thinking I could get away with just dropping it. So when you ask, should I get insurance I cannot help answering yes even though I might have been thinking you could get long without it for a while.
 
Tucker943 said:
You clearly have what it takes in this business. You got the fire in you. As long as you have a sense of money management, the rest will fall into place over time. Get an insurance policy. I have a few pointers from you, however, I have far less smarts than many of the guys on here. Don't give yourself away. If you are going to dangle on a half inch rope with a running chainsaw, get paid accordingly. It's real easy when you are young and froggy to cut your own throat just to feel the thrill of locking your own work. Don't do it. Charge what you know the work is worth deep down in your heart. If you don't get the work, no biggie, there's plenty of other trees out there. The other thing, and I speak from experience, don't let people push you around because of your age. I was out on my own full tilt running my own tree service at age 21. People often tried to twist my wrist on things because I was young and they felt I could be easily persuaded. They often tried sweet talking me down, tried squeezing in more work after I bid it, or tried dangling the carrot of promising all the work to come if I'd cut them a deal. Be aware of that my friend and stand your ground. Again, there are lots of trees out there.
Click to expand...

You should print this out and keep it in your bid box. Truely, it doesn't matter if you don't get every job, if you think you are getting your foot in the door with cheap bids, your not, as soon as you raise your prices to where they should be, those folks will hire someone else.
 
Agree with all the above. Make sure you are working to your standards. Talk to people till you are blue in the face about proper tree care. Don't be afraid to spend money on gear or iron to make life easier.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Oh yeah man, thats definitely the goal here is get iron to make life easier, thats the idea behind me picking up Carl's mini.

And thanks a ton guys for the links and advice, been checking out the links since last night, some great info on there as well as on here. Thanks again!
 
I'm going to be contrary here and not agree entirely. Id avoid buying iron as much as you can. You are trying to start a business in a brutal economy. You are as young as young can be. Stick with manual labor or renting equipment as much as you can. You will know someday when the time is right to start buying machinery. When the time comes, add machinery to support your work, here and now, you'll be adding work to support your machinery.
 
I'm not knocking you for buying a mini. But do yourself a favor and DO NOT run out and finance a pile of iron early on. That is an almost certain failure. Just take it nice and easy and with time you will know when you are ready to take bigger steps. I'm not encouraging you to be fearful, I'm encouraging you to be profitable.
 
Best thing I did was buy iron before I took off on my own. I financed my mini while I was still working for my first employer. Also financed my Ford while working for him. Picked up a little chipper, doing jobs here and there. Quit working for him eventually, sold the chipper for more than I paid for it after using the hell out of it, then bought the Woodsman. Everything was paid for two years later, no break downs, no dumping money into crap, no wasted money on rentals. Everything is still MINT, paid for, and did not dump thousands into JUNK. I'll have my stuff for a long time.

Get legit, get your ins, don't buy junk, dapple with other people. Do what you gotta do. Good luck.

I don't want to, or sound like I'm tooting my own horn here. But damned I hate seeing good people make foolish mistakes!
 
I agree with Brendan...to a point. I am starting up (in a new way) right now also and am investing in helpful machinery, BUT no financing! I paid cash for my mini, stump grinder & grapple attachments, and chip truck. I will pay cash for the chipper as well. It took some patience, but now I own nice paid-for machines in great condition that will last me a long time, and no monthly payments. I think carrying credit in this economy is a fools gamble unless you have an iron clad income or financial resources to pay it off.
 
If you can pay cash, buy every darned thing that you can. But taking loans out right now on equipment on a start up venture is flat out stupid. That might have flown 5 years ago, but not now. This is a bad economy. Not to mention, banks arent handing out money left and right to new ventures. RD, you'll have your whole career to make payments and send checks out in the mail. Take this time to keep it simple. Time is on your side, you are starting out young. Use those 2 machines that are strapped to your shoulders to bank as much as you can. If you can score a good chip truck or chipper for a sweet deal that you'll never see again, well, maybe consider a small loan. But dont tie up any and all available credit you come across on equipment. If someone tells you to do so, ask them if they'll be there to cover those payments when you blow your knee out on a side job and need 3 months to be able to climb again.

Another thing. Shop around for good insurance. By that, I mean ask the agents you talk to for a quote from an "A" rated company. You may have to poke around at a few insurance agencies before you find one that can write you a policy though an A rated company. It wont make you bullet proof legally, but it is wise to get the best coverage you can get. However, there are a lot of really great "B" rated insurance companies, but you dont want to find out the hard way if your insurance company is there for you. A lot of inexpensive general liability policies dont cover faulty workmanship. The shit insurance comnpanies like to use that loop hole to their advantage and point the finger at your damage and say "thats faulty workmanship. Done properly, the damage wouldnt have occured".
 
So depend on your body to make your living, because your body might give out and you won't be able to make the payments on the equipment?

Doing tree work without equipment is a great way to stay broke.
 
Carl, I didnt say that, or suggest that. Read back and you will see that. What Im saying, and suggesting, is to take it easy on bank loans until he gets the ball rolling and starts seeing a demand for his services. Maybe Im dumb, but a pile of equipment with no jobs to keep it moving, and loans due on out all of it doesnt seem too bright to me.

And Carl, small and simple tree services can net a lot of money. Its not always pretty, and does wear men out, but it is very doable. You probably decided to engage me because you're looking to sell him equipment.
 
Payroll on 2 guys will be way more than a loan on a few pieces of equipment. No I don't think you should go on a spending spree before you have steady work. But let's face it the economy is crap and the trees are still growing, dieing what have you. There will be work to be had. Just have to hustle it up.
 
Trust me, Carl knows equipment. I have swamped folks with brush/debris before, but Carl could nearly stay up with me with the mini. With the Gehl, he has no problem keeping up. I certainly wish I'd had a mini 15-20 years ago. Would have saved many a pulled muscle. I still load brush by hand a good bit, as I can get more on the trailer, but when it comes to wood, mechanized is the way to go. When I first started helping Carl, I was amazed at what a difference the mini made. The two of us could accomplish in one day what would have taken two or three men 2 days doing it by hand.

As to buying equipment and it sitting, I bet I'm the only guy here who bought a bucket truck and paid for it by nailing on shingles. :roll: But i don't regret the mini(s) one bit. They have paid for themselves already in my opinion, if not in direct dividend, in labor reduction for sure.

Adrian, if you ever get to where you can operate that Thomas like Carl, my hat's off to you.
 
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