Benefits of Mulch

[OTGBOSTON]

problem with that x is that the trees could've been planted too high. double check that it is a mulch volcano and not planted too high BEFORE you unleash your wrath on the guy either way its bad, just better to have your ducks in a row

 

[sotc]

just as an example "what not to do" pic

 

[xtremetrees]

Ty Boston, it will take closer inspection before sending out something. They have lost alot of the trees already, I'm seeing stumps. It seems wiser to have done it right from the beginning. Im guessing its over 1500 trees by this one road.

 

[squisher]

Ok in the reading I've done on applying mulch to mature/existing trees is it basically says to just go ahead and add a 2 to 3 inch layer on top of the existing surface without having it right next to the trunk/root flare.

So now my tentative plan is to use landscaping fabric right over top of the existing grass and then 2-3 inches of mulch over top of that. First off defining the mulch area with some lawn edging.

Anyone got any thoughts on this? I'm thinking that the landscape fabric will kill off the grass and not allow it to just grow up through the mulch.

 

[SkwerI]

landscaping fabric is a waste of time, money, and it creates more problems than it 'solves'. If you want it to work for 6 months then go ahead and use the fabric. But the problems encountered 3-5 years down the road will cause much more harm than good (kind of like topping trees, you have instant relief but worse problems later).

In other words, if it will kill the grass now then it will also restrict the tree roots later. And what are you going to do when you have grass growing on top of the barrier? Pull it up, after all the tree feeder roots and grass roots are all grown into it? Nope, it will be a mess.

 

[squisher]

So you'd just put the mulch right over the grass? That's the other way I'm considering and then just controlling whatever grass does grow through. A couple books that I read have recommended plastic with holes poked in or landscaping fabric to control weed growth. But I also read that mulching increases encourages feeder roots near the surface of the soil or the soil/mulch interface. So I wouldn't want to be disturbing all those roots in a few short years to repair/replace.

But couldn't you put down landscaping fabric just to help control the initial regrowth of grass/weeds and then just control whatever does grow through in the future as it happens without worrying about ripping out the old fabric? Also I read that mulch helps to supress weed growth so possibly after the mulch bed is established all that you might need to do in the future is add more mulch as it decomposes(if using a organic mulch which I would)?

I mean mulch is the way to go for new plantings or mature trees, just a matter of figuring the proper way to make it happen. The benefits are numerous as I've been reading and the risk/drawbacks are minimal as long as a little forethought is put into the type of mulch material used.

 

[SkwerI]

So you want to supress the weed roots but encourage the tree roots? How will the fabric distinguish between the weed roots and tree roots so it knows which ones to encourage and which ones to discourage?

 

[squisher]

Hmm you're not following me and I'm not really following your last post there either I'm going to completly smother the grass not the tree as well, the grass should die because it will be buried no more light no more photosynthesis to grow I'm not going to kill it by the roots up. And I obviously won't be burying the tree.

The tree roots(feeders) and grass roots will already be there competing with each other as is happening right now with a tree surrounded completely by lawn, I'm hoping with either the landscape fabric and mulch or just mulch to smother the grass by burying it not by killing the roots. Once the grass is 'buried' it should die off unless it just grows right through the mulch again. That is why I'm considering putting down the landscape fabric.

Again so you would just apply the mulch with no barrier and deal with the grass as it grows through?

By all reports in the books I'm reading mulch naturally suppresses weed growth with or without a barrier.

Also increasing tree root growth is but one of the many benefits of mulch.

 

[SkwerI]

I'm just trying to get you to look at landscape fabric from some other viewpoint than the advertising blurb on the side of the box. Look at it from the tree's point of view. If you completely forget about the grass, will putting down fabric all over the tree's root zone help or hinder the tree? No in-between, just a yes or no answer. If you answer "It won't hurt too much", then how much is too much?

If it won't hurt the roots, then it won't hurt the grass either. And if it doesn't hurt the grass, then why are you putting it down? I'm just trying to get some sort of reasonable, well defined explanation why people insist on using that crap along with some sort of proof that it has ever worked. In 25 years I haven't found anything positive about it. And I'm ignoring the first 6 months of use, I'm focusing on 6.1 months through 20 years after it has been installed. Tree time, not weed time.

 

[squisher]

I hear what you're saying but what I'm talking about is the first six months when the existing grass goes, 'oh yah mulch thanks' and grows right up like crazy, will it be hard on the roots of the grass or the tree? I honestly don't know, I'm assuming that it would be a real advantage in controlling the grass growing up through the mulch and I'm not familiar with any damage that it would cause to the tree roots long term. As I understand it the goal of mulch is not to have the roots growing up and through it it's for temperature moderation, compaction protection, moisture retention so on and so forth but the roots of the tree will still need to grow in the soil underneath the mulch or right at the soil/mulch interface.

And just so you know I haven't been down to the home depot reading the boxes of landscape fabric I've been reading Arboriculture 4th edition, and Trees for urban and suburban landscapes as well as a few other resources.

From Arboriculture 4th edition:

They may be underlain with geotextile fabric or black plastic in areas free of traffic. The fabric or plastic enhance weed control, but the plastc is easily torn..................After the fabric or plastic is in place, apply bark, gravel, crushed rock, cobblestones, or other material thickly enough to cover the plastic...................To replace the sheeting and bark or rock mulches, you must removethe mulch covering, install new sheeting and replace the mulch cover.

They are referring to doing this around trees and shrubs so I would think that the roots of tree or shrubs would do fine in this scenario?

I'm not trying to be an ass Brian I'm just trying to learn and develop a plan for the best way to go about doing this. That's why I'm eager to read your thoughts on this as well. I'm guessing you have some experience with these coverings you seem to dislike so much and I have none, so I respect your opinion.

 

[sotc]

im with brian here. cut it low, spray it and mulch it. by putting down fabric your wasting alot of the effects of mulch like loosining the soil. you should have very few weed come through the mulch and the ones that do should pull easy

 

[sotc]

justin, most of the point of mulch is compromised with the fabric. the mulch will break down and do its thing but it wont get into the soil.

 

[squisher]

Now that's the kind of advice I'm looking for, I see so maybe obliterate the grass with my weedeater or something chew it right up bigtime and then just mulch over top of that.

I mean heh I have no desire to buy and install landscaping fabric if I don't have to.

What would you spray it with?

 

[sotc]

roundup.

 

[SkwerI]

Installing fabric is a lot of work for very little gain, and the gain is temporary while the problems associated with interfering with the natural composting and settling of the soil are long term. Mulch does not remain as mulch, it composts into topsoil. As time passes you will add more mulch. 5-10 years from now your fabric will be under 3-4" of topsoil and all the tree roots will be tangled up in it. After 6 months the fabric will serve no useful purpose for weed control since new weeds typically germinate from airborne seeds.

Just spray the grass with Roundup and then mulch the area. The weeds will compost along with the mulch. Believe me, I sold enough of that fabric crap back in my teens as a lawnscraper, and I dealt with it as I maintained those properties for many years. I also have done lots of work on properties where fabric was installed many years prior and I was able to see with my own eyes how the roots of the trees and bushes reacted to the fabric. The roots penetrate it then grow rapidly on top of the fabric, where all the water and nutrients are available. Nothing grows underneath it.

 

[squisher]

See now I'm learning. Cool I will partake of physical and biological warfare on the grass and save myself the agony's of dealing with a barrier. What you and Willie mentioned makes perfect sense and you guys are right while the tree would still be receiving many of the benefits of mulch it would be missing out on a major one of the reaction/interface of the mulch directly with the soil.

Thanks for taking the time to help edumacate me, I am but still a grasshopper.

 

[rumination]

What those guys already said. Landscape fabric sucks.

 

[NickfromWI]

I'd just put the mulch straight on the grass. The fabric is introducing something unnatural. One of the best things about mulch is that it is closely replicating something that happens naturally in the woods.

I've learned and teach that you can put 4" mulch without damage to the tree. Go big or go home!

love
nick

 

[MasterBlaster]

Grass can grow through the mulch.

 

[brendonv]

We had a makeshift hay field underneath a big White Oak in the yard. Just started dumping and spreading chips under it with a minimum of 4" thick. That was probably 10 years ago. Ever since then the hay field disappeared, now there is black gold underneath. The tree never looked so good.

Actually since we couldn't grow grass anywhere on that side, because of that tree, high traffic, 2 Beeches, and 2 Maples, it's probably 80% wood chip. Alleviates the compaction when I drive the truck on it, adds to the soil, and doesn't look so bad either.

 

[squisher]

Fresh chips? I've read that can cause nitrogen deficiencies which is easy enough to overcome with fertilizing. Just curious.

 

[brendonv]

They are fresh when I dump 'em . Although, since we have bean dumping for so long, I don't think the top layer is making any difference since the roots are well below.

 

[sotc]

ahh, first hand experience!

 

[brendonv]

From the red over is all woodchip. We decided on this because grass wont grow, mud sucks, there is a greenhouse my parents always walk to, a chicken coop, my barn, I stack logs top left.

 

[squisher]

ahh, first hand experience!

That's what I'm looking for my first mulching will be this year. I ain't gonna risk messing it up. Books and you guys are the only access I have to info. Unless I want to pry the minds of other cert'd arbs around here who still top and do flush cuts.