woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Good to know, thought it might be an Asian thing.
461
- Thread starter arborworks1
- Start date
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ClimbMIT
TreeHouser
I don't plan to use this in the tree much. I am 5'6" 180 lbs I have just gotten better with the 361. With that said I put the 25" on this saw and it rocked! So there is a possibility I just need to keep eating my wheaties.
Kick back potential is much more than 361 which will run a 25" fine for most situations. Did notice a good bit of vibration on 461 when buried. Overall I love cutting pieces with 28" and 25" that the bar will go through. Anyway what would falling dogs would be good?
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
The OEM for the 461R are pretty good dogs they are 5 point. Having the roller chain catcher on them does help when the chain is thrown. I use an after market set that are 4 point. They stick and are rugged enough for knocking out the occasional face. .
ClimbMIT
TreeHouser
I guess I will have to see my dealer for the oem 5 point. The 4 point after market for the 461 are they the same as the ones for the 460? Thanks CL
HolmenTree
Banned
Good point, use only what you need rather then working handicapped with a clumsy saw.
Actually a longer b/c produces greater kickback energy, the longer the bar the more leverage is applied to the powerheads handles.
I once tested my Stihl 066-20" against my 090Av-60" on a log to see which one kickbacks harder.
The 090 was far greater out of control, if the 60" bar had not bent sideways and thrown the chain the saw would have jumped out of my hands.
ClimbMIT
TreeHouser
That is good to know and makes sense but it also seems like with a smaller bar the kickback could reach you faster sense the rpm's are more with the shorter bar.IDK Just my guess? I sure your saw knowledge is far superior to mine. Did you test this with a failsafe such as piece of wood that blocked the saw from hitting you? Or did you rely solely on the chain brake?
Thanks, Mark
HolmenTree
Banned
With 40 yrs piloting chainsaws I knew what I was up against. Left arm locked straight , Wot with upper quadrant of bar nose contacting butt end of treelength log. Chainbrake came on the 066 but 090 has none.
Yes the kickback arc is shorter with a smaller b/c, but what does that matter when your locked Into a work position 50 ft off the ground where cutting is done within a foot from your upper body most times. In awkward positions.
Yes the kickback arc is shorter with a smaller b/c, but what does that matter when your locked Into a work position 50 ft off the ground where cutting is done within a foot from your upper body most times. In awkward positions.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
In my experience, a short bar on a strong saw will kick faster towards you. But a big bar, will kick slower, but with a lot more leverage. Many 20" bars have come at me, and they do so very fast, but I have always caught them with time to spare, minus one occasion. Long bars have come at me less frequently but when they have, they've always gone a long ways and been much harder to tame.
HolmenTree
Banned
Back in my logging days my best production saw was a Stihl 064 with 18" b/c, bigger wood in the 16"-20" BHD average I ran a 20". The 064-18" felled, limbed and topped a lot of timber and I was very comfortable with it.
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
But that's an 090. A long bar does 2 things for you. It puts the working end further away from you. And it adds weight and time. Having run a lot of both short and long bars I have to disagree with Mr Holmen.
Try a 36" and a 20" bar on a 660. With the same chain settings. Rider height length of tooth, sharpening angle . But keep your thumbs wrapped around the hb and grip.
Try a 36" and a 20" bar on a 660. With the same chain settings. Rider height length of tooth, sharpening angle . But keep your thumbs wrapped around the hb and grip.
HolmenTree
Banned
Longer bars don't give you extra time
With the longer b/c you got extra kickback energy leverage coming back at you, and the longer arc of the nose doesn't have to cut you, you'll just get the middle of the bar nailing you in the face.
Visualize standing up against a tree limbing the lower limbs off so you can make your face notch, that 36" bar's nose kicks back at you..................the nose doesn't have to contact you.
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
Put it this way, in more than 36 years of making a living with a chainsaw I have been cut by a running saw 1 time. And that was with a short 30" bar on a 460 stihl. The cause was 2 things. The riders were taken down past 60 k and most important, I did Not have my thumb around the handle bar.
I have had thousands of kick backs with long bars lots of them while running the saw 1 handed. Never had a problem with controlling a kick back as long as I had a long enough bar on the saw.
The primary point I want to convey tho is to keep your thumbs wrapped around the handles. .
With a short bar on a saw the kick back portion of the bar will be in contact with wood more than a longer bar. Many more opportunities for a kickback.
I may disagree with someones theory but I won't disagree with their success.
The 3 main things I tell the guys cutting on my crew are. Keep an eye on your tip , keep your thumbs wrapped around the handles and look up.
I have had thousands of kick backs with long bars lots of them while running the saw 1 handed. Never had a problem with controlling a kick back as long as I had a long enough bar on the saw.
The primary point I want to convey tho is to keep your thumbs wrapped around the handles. .
With a short bar on a saw the kick back portion of the bar will be in contact with wood more than a longer bar. Many more opportunities for a kickback.
I may disagree with someones theory but I won't disagree with their success.
The 3 main things I tell the guys cutting on my crew are. Keep an eye on your tip , keep your thumbs wrapped around the handles and look up.
HolmenTree
Banned
Looks like a 28" Fi.What size saw do you think this is?
I used it during training, unfortunately I buggered up two picture files that actually show me using it.
Well CL, myself being a instructor for www.arborcanada.com I can teach you a lot of things, and these 2 things you just mentioned I first correct my students on.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Saying kick backs are safer with a longer bar seems true, but is also seems to take longer to reign in the kickback on a really long bar. The arc will swing more, I guess do to less leverage to control it. That would be more unsafe if some other person happened to be standing there within the radius of the arc. Nobody should be, but .....
HolmenTree
Banned
660
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
Bermy ; Looks like a flat filter 036 bit it could be a flat filter 064 . . If the 36 then it looks like a 25" Stihl bar. If a 64 I would say 28"
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
I looked again, 064 . Possibly a longer bar than 28"
Unless Stihl made a flatfilter 066 . I've never seen a flat top 660 . But the first 066 s I saw and ran had flat top covers.
Unless Stihl made a flatfilter 066 . I've never seen a flat top 660 . But the first 066 s I saw and ran had flat top covers.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Those flat filters are a weird looking design. I have one on my 046. They look like you did something to cave it in.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
064 w/ 28" bar.
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
Looks like a 28" Fi.
So, what 2 things would that be.
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
Ive never seen a flat filter 046 . But I know Stihl doesn't distribute all models or styles in all locations. The only 046/460 s I've had and seen had the big filter on them.
HolmenTree
Banned
660-28"
Cold Logging
TreeHouser
Bermy ; Inquiring minds want to know !
