VT hitch advise

[CurSedVoyce]

YUP!

 

[The Branch Doctor]

Jay, the vt is an interesting hitch indeed! Me and the vt have been going rounds for years. I've been playing with different variations of it for years and there are so many variables involved it's crazy! I've tried every different style of cord you can think of with different knots and different lengths and it's been a never ending quest for perfection. Fortunately I dig trying new things to see how they perform for me and always hoping to find something that makes me better, faster, more efficient.

With that said, I think you should also check out the XT hitch! Its a vt with an extra twist in the braids. Here's a pic.

 

[Bermy]

That looks like a distel with a braid below...
Cary, I checked my OP, it says 32" on it...I didn't think that was long, the splices take about 5" or so out of the tie-able length...sometimes the runt has had a big breakfast and needs the extra wraps...

 

[CurSedVoyce]

So many variables one could go on forever. So personal for every climber. Climber weight and style, cordage (both climb line and hitch), every little nuance can make or break a system from one person to the next.

 

[SkwerI]

Also your tie in point will affect your hitch. You need a certain amount of friction to hold your weight and that friction will be distributed among all of the rope contact points. If you use a pulley type friction saver at your tie in then almost 100% of the friction will be directed to your hitch. If you use a natural crotch and 30% of the friction is there, then your hitch only needs to control the other 70% and may work a bit more smoothly.

Pay attention to which direction you wrap the rope with both the wraps and braids. If all the wraps and braids are twisting the rope in the same direction then you will have lots of rope twist (especially if you're using a pulley friction saver). If you make the inner leg of the braids wrap in the opposite direction of the wraps then your hitch will be much more 'twist neutral' and your lifeline won't end up looking like a candy cane.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Jason, wanting to shorten the cord as Brian suggested, I tried both an additional wrap and an extra braid, then both. Just the extra wrap seemed to slide the best and grab well. The cord is still getting softened up, though,

 

[Widow Shooter]

That looks like a distel with a braid below...
Cary, I checked my OP, it says 32" on it...I didn't think that was long, the splices take about 5" or so out of the tie-able length...sometimes the runt has had a big breakfast and needs the extra wraps...

mhm....doubtful, methinks it is just too long

 

[biggun]

I used to use this sort of VT. 3 wraps 2 braid, 8mm Armor Pruss and Edelrid Timber blue climb line. IIRC the hitch cord was 23 inches end to end. No Sitback, good for self tending and pretty reliable.

I use similar setup now but sometimes use Armor Pruss on Poison Hivy. 8mm Ocean Poly on Yale Imori or the same hitchcord on NE Tachyon.

All use the hitchclimber.

 

[SkwerI]

Biggun's picture is a good example of a rope twister. Notice how the inside leg of the braids is the same leg that makes the wraps, so as far as the lifeline is concerned it's just a bunch of wraps all twisting the rope in the same direction as it gets moved under tension. Simply making that crossover on the last braid with the other leg against the lifeline will make that bottom braid rotate the lifeline in the opposite direction of all those other wraps and counteract some of the twist. This will make the hitch much more 'twist neutral'.

 

[woodworkingboy]

The first photo I posted in the thread will show Brian's preferred set up.

Also, the 3 and 2 that biggun shows, appears to be the same as Peter referred to as 4 and 1. There seems some confusion on the way to count wraps and braids.

 

[biggun]

Biggun's picture is a good example of a rope twister. Notice how the inside leg of the braids is the same leg that makes the wraps, so as far as the lifeline is concerned it's just a bunch of wraps all twisting the rope in the same direction as it gets moved under tension. Simply making that crossover on the last braid with the other leg against the lifeline will make that bottom braid rotate the lifeline in the opposite direction of all those other wraps and counteract some of the twist. This will make the hitch much more 'twist neutral'.

That is an old picture Brian. You suggested about 2 years ago that to avoid twist to have the braids the other way around. I have been climbing a VT like that since then and can confirm there is less twist in the climb line.

I just take less pictures of friction hitches these days...

 

[SkwerI]

Good deal. I understand about the picture thing, that picture Jay posted at the beginning of the thread was taken about 5-6 years ago. But looking at both pictures side by side will be a great example for others.

 

[Widow Shooter]

I have been doing it like Brian said for over 2 years now, works well you can see how the alternating braids work to keep the hitch running nice and true with no twist.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Wow.

 

[Widow Shooter]

Wow.

it is a neat, tidy package isn't Boss? all hooked into one biner like that

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I have a difficulty picking up how people tie the VT for twist-neutrality. I have some twist issues. If anyone can please show a side by side picture of a twister and non-twister VT, it would be great.

 

[SkwerI]

Look at the bottom most crossover on the hitch cord in these two pictures. The yellow one will twist the rope much more than the white one.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Thanks, Brian.

I alternate the over/ under part. Maybe three braids will twist a bit, whereas two braids cancel out the twist.

Maybe I need a shorter cord and two braids.

 

[SkwerI]

Set up your rope and hitch in the shop or somewhere where you can play with it and watch it under load while slowly moving it. Watch how the braids and wraps twist the rope as the hitch moves down the rope under load. If your rope is twisting then switch one of the braids so the inside leg twists the rope in the opposite direction. You can adjust it one crossover at a time and dial it in.

 

[NeTree]

Brian showed me his VT a time ago; I've done it that way ever since.

 

[Widow Shooter]

T B T top over bottom, bottom over top, top over bottom

 

[woodworkingboy]

Sounds romantic, Cary.

 

[NeTree]

 

[Widow Shooter]

Sounds romantic, Cary.

i can't help it, I'm just cool like dat

 

[The Branch Doctor]

Or gay like that ....

Hehe, sorry bro, I just couldn't resist the easy opportunity to bust a Canadian's chops... you know it's just a GDC thing.