Training

[sotc]

I don't get the reasoning behind so many of you starting climbers out with a Blake's hitch or tautline.
Do you start new trainee fallers out with a stoneaxe?
When newer and, frankly, better methods are available, why not use them.

I agree fully Steve. How often do you have a guy that left something in the other truck or at home? May not be often but if they do they are stuck on the ground. I have gone up a tree with just a rope in the past for 1 little cut or hanger that I came to bid on and because I had a rope in the truck and knew how to throw a double bowline and a Blakes I didn't need to make a second trip back. Not ideal but knowledge is power

 

[stig]

Reread my post, please!

I did not oppone against teaching a Blake to new climbers, since I find that valuable knowledge myself, for the reason you just mentioned.
What I said ; or meant to say, anyway, was that I fail to see the reason for starting them out on it, and only letting them use the new, better stuff when they have mastered old style.

That would be like saying they can't use a friction knot or figure 8 before they have mastered the Münter hitch, because if they drop their figure 8, they'll need a münter to get down from the tree.

Like refusing to teach handgun shooting to someone unless they master karate first, because if they drop the gun, they'll need it as a back-up.

A waste of time IMO.

I have been using old style stuff for far more years than new style, but that doesn't make me revere it just for the sake of tradition.


MB, I hope you noticed my correct use of the umlaut over the u, when spelling münter hitch

 

[NeTree]

For me it's not about tradition; it's about natural progression. Learning to walk before you run, and all that. (Although using a rope and saddle only for a few days will definitely make them appreciate more modern tools).

Having them use those techniques naturally opens them up to asking questions that lead to the next step.

 

[thattreeguy]

being that we have lots of easy but tall trees here, i ve skipped some of the old school in the begining,
i give the guys eye and eye b lines with a diestel and a tender pulley
that way they can use their rope and split tail to safely ascend and i know they are always tied in, it s kinda idiot proof set up, then once their comfort shows in their movements will we get into all the other goodies, have to k now theyre gonna hang out and not wuss out

 

[Blinky]

I think the reason to learn old school is that anyone can drop a split-tail when they're tying it in the tree. It's also handy for using a second tie-in without carrying a spare split-tail.

Tradition is cool and worth studying because new school is just an extension of old school... it's good to know how things evolved.

 

[Frans]

I would think that knowing how to work a rope into a climbing system would be a matter of safety.
Only knowing how to climb with go go gadget gear but not know how to whip up a blake's is dangerous IMO.

 

[gf beranek]

During a lot of traverses, which I do a lot of, I fashion the tail of my climbline into and old school system to accomplish them.

Though used only for a very brief time it's ultimately handy to know.

 

[wiley_p]

It's not an issue of NOT teaching the old drt methods. It's what gets taught first. New age drt is way better than the Blake/Tautline closed system.
If you teach a climber on the old stuff first you are wasting time. Muscle memory will have to be rebuilt on the new method in the line of progression many of you are advocating.

 

[Old Monkey]

My problem is that I have not fully embraced the new stuff myself so we are trying it all as a group a bit at a time.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Muscle memory... I had not even considered that twist... I will have to take note of that as I try new gear and how my efficiency may be effected by it. Interesting

 

[klimbinfool]

Daves just saying that cause he can't tie a Blake...

 

[sotc]

I don't get the muscle memory thing. A knot is a knot, some do the job a little better than others but it's the same job. The knot is in the same place, you pull on them both to go down. I don't think I am any faster with a prussic than with a Blakes, I just like it better. In fact I went back to a Blakes many times before I stuck with a newer knot

 

[wiley_p]

Willie set a line at 25'. Tie a "traditional" closed system with a Blakes. Ascend the line to 20'.
Now tie an open system with a VT, Knut, Swabisch, whatever. Tell me if 1. it was easier or harder, and 2. if the body movements were the same for ascending.
Descent is only half the issue in how a friction hitch functions in a drt setup.

 

[Blinky]

[...]In fact I went back to a Blakes many times before I stuck with a newer knot

Same here.

I don't ascend DdRT, I footlock and setup my split-tail once I'm happy with my TIP. When I body thrust it's only to go up a few feet so either system works about as well. That's one part of old school I don't get, vertical ascent by body thrusting... it's waaaay too hard.

 

[wiley_p]

Blink, footlocking is about as "old school" as you can get. Again the traditional, "old school" drt technique was employed using a tautline first, then a Blake. Both knots being tied on a closed system, Which is the huge, gaping flaw in teaching a climber how to use a rope in working a tree, when there is many other better choices.

 

[klimbinfool]

Oh! boy here we go ...lol... I'm stayin out of this one.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Duck and cover.. LOL
My old school... Klein belt, flip line, gaffs and a positioning lanyard.... (Basically two flip lines...)

 

[SkwerI]

Greg, here at the Treehouse we can usually disagree and discuss topics without resorting to personal attacks. Unless you're discussing politics or religion, that is.
No need to stay out of it. Speak your mind, it's all good.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

He's chuckling Brian... I think he knows us by reputation... LMAO

 

[klimbinfool]

I'll chyme in here soon I'm sure...

 

[Mr. Sir]

Greg, here at the Treehouse we can usually disagree and discuss topics without resorting to personal attacks. Unless you're discussing politics or religion, that is.
No need to stay out of it. Speak your mind, it's all good.

Absolutely! Personal attacks against "Jesus freaks" are allowed and encouraged by the management.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I hear another chuckle .... LOL

 

[klimbinfool]

your right, I', LMAO

 

[Blinky]

I for one Brett, have no interest in attacking you or your threads... like you say, if you don't like it, don't read it.
It's just fun to pick a good natured fight every so often.

Leon is another matter.

 

[rumination]

Bring it on 'Bama boy.




<-- ----------That's right, this avatar is for you.




P.S. Did you ever get those cooties in the mail?