Someone Might Care... Who Knows?

[SouthSoundTree-]

My guess is that the middle East population is of lighter skin overall, especially post crusades, compared to 2014 and a few days ago.

 

[MasterBlaster]

He didn't have red or blonde hair, that's for sure.

 

[stig]

Now, now Chris... No horsing around!! We're all business around here! We HAVE TO BE! An improperly filed saw is just too big of a tragedy. We simply don't have any room for humor or derails!

Was Jesus really black?

Actually IMO you guys have gone waaaay overboard on this.
Sure a sharp saw is essential, but you are not talking working sharp, here. You are talking cookie cutter/ saw nerd sharp.
Totally unnecessary. In my work, economy of movement, an eye for lean, fiber run and what you can fit into a tight lay are all way more important moneymakers than a super sharp saw.
If you don't have an eye for bind forces, It isn't gonna matter much if your saw can cut, because it'll be stuck in log binds constantly.
I keep my saws sharp, just like my knives and turning tools. But it is my ability to kill trees efficiently and cut them into pieces that makes me money, not the last 10% sharpness of my chain.

Not only was Jesus black, he was a woman.

 

[Magnus]

Well, lets put it this way..
What if you could save 50% of the costs of bars/chains/rim's the saw, would that be interesting?

Many go out of their way to get a bit cheaper purchase price or save a dollar/gallon on bar oil so to me it is very surprising nor more is interested in getting it better. Saving time on filing, service and stuff is another factor.

Run a day, no filing, yet still no lost of production/sharpness, no more wear than normal or more frequent replacing with less fuel used... This is my goal...

Jesus was not only a black woman, she was a Arab as well!

 

[Cold Logging]

Actually IMO you guys have gone waaaay overboard on this.
Sure a sharp saw is essential, but you are not talking working sharp, here. You are talking cookie cutter/ saw nerd sharp.
Totally unnecessary. In my work, economy of movement, an eye for lean, fiber run and what you can fit int

o a tight lay are all way more important moneymakers than a super sharp saw.
If you don't have an eye for bind forces, It isn't gonna matter much if your saw can cut, because it'll be stuck in log binds constantly.
I keep my saws sharp, just like my knives and turning tools. But it is my ability to kill trees efficiently and cut them into pieces that makes me money, not the last 10% sharpness of my chain.

.

That's my thots exactly.

 

[Jed]

That was a really cool post Stig. Actually, it perfectly embodies an overarching philosophical (don't laugh) question I had when I started this thread. The question of why a person would tilt a file upward ten degrees interests me. What interest me even more is WHY I can't get certain photographs out of my head that display perfectly sawn (whether Humboldt or conventional) undercuts and hinges from Gerry's Fundamentals book. Why do I feel like hand-falling is infinitely more beautiful than feller/buncher work? Why should a person take such a percision carpentry approach just to "create" such a beautiful stump?

But then, after a point, all the nerdy mechanics start to actually detract from the main and essential beauty of woods work or general tree work. It seems like common-sense, round-file, tradesman practicality is, in the end, intrinsically more beautiful than the cold, calculations of why square chisels flow chips straighter and faster than round. Or is it? These questions, for me, are really the biggest part of what this thread is about, in addition to the practical elements.

 

[Cold Logging]

Chisel grinder is almost infinitely adjustable. And more adjustable than a chisel file. With a chisel grinder, the tooth can be lightly buffed, polished or ground to correct shape and sharpness. And all the teeth can easily be done the same. Long bars full of wood will show that cutter height makes quite a difference in the straightness of the cut and ease of making a straight cut.

 

[Mick!]

Oh I don't know, I think it's a great thread, it's given those of us who are less than 100% certain of our sharpening skills some food for thought. I haven't understood everything that's been said but I was in the workshop this afternoon, filing, looking, testing.
Sometimes I'm great, sometimes less than great, understanding why and where I'm going wrong is what I want.

 

[Jed]

Yup... Same here Mick.

Cutter height, Glenn? Are you talking about the height differences due to corresponding chisel lengths?

 

[Magnus]

I haven't understood everything that's been said but I was in the workshop this afternoon, filing, looking, testing.
Sometimes I'm great, sometimes less than great, understanding why and where I'm going wrong is what I want.

This is not going to get better.
The more I try test and learn, the more I see how little I have known in past when I was working with saws.
I also get reminded frequently I have a lot to learn yet and there is no limit to how good it can be.

 

[Magnus]

Chisel grinder is almost infinitely adjustable. And more adjustable than a chisel file. With a chisel grinder, the tooth can be lightly buffed, polished or ground to correct shape and sharpness. And all the teeth can easily be done the same. Long bars full of wood will show that cutter height makes quite a difference in the straightness of the cut and ease of making a straight cut.

Sounds like every sales pitch I heard for grinders in general over the years. Get a grinder and your worries go away.
It is just as much knowledge needed to run a grinder as it is to use a file.
If it is square grinder or not it is still a machine and still a disc that grinds, same metal property's and treatments, just different shapes.
Those grinders I would like to try. There is no importers here as far as I know.
You use same disc to polish and grind?

 

[woodworkingboy]

It might be thought that it is going overboard to be wanting to get edges real sharp with either a file or a grinder, but it has to be kept in mind that sharp with those tools is not very sharp at all, compared to what is obtainable with fine grit sharpening stones, water type or oil, natural or synthetic. A file or grinding wheel is a relatively coarse sharpening surface, even when used in the most skilful of hands. An edge might look shiny, but it isn't polished by any means when compared to what a knife maker or woodworker will need to get for a very keen edge, one that will reflect like a mirror. A more jagged edge compared will not give durability like a more refined one in the same steel. The same principle as sandpaper, 120 grit is going to get something relatively smooth, but compared to 400 grit, the coarser is going to unavoidably leave more irregularity scratches on the surface. Files are the best solution for sharpening chains currently when wanting to get sharp, but when it comes to using a double cut fine grade file, at best that is only preliminary to getting something close to as sharp as it can become with other methods, unfortunately much more time consuming ones that aren't practical.

With stones, beyond a certain grade they aren't considered for cutting, basically for polishing. A file isn't a polishing tool, technically speaking. Try shaving with a straight razor edge put on with a chainsaw file, and possibly resemble Freddy krueger.

 

[cory]

What interest me even more is WHY I can't get certain photographs out of my head that display perfectly sawn (whether Humboldt or conventional) undercuts and hinges from Gerry's Fundamentals book.

You and me both. I was watching the "BC fallers safety course" last nite, shows different faces etc and back cuts being made in the bush. It was mesmerizing and had me itching to go make some stumps, Yet that's basically all I do day in day out is make stumps, go figure.

 

[Tucker943]

Actually IMO you guys have gone waaaay overboard on this.
Sure a sharp saw is essential, but you are not talking working sharp, here. You are talking cookie cutter/ saw nerd sharp.
Totally unnecessary. In my work, economy of movement, an eye for lean, fiber run and what you can fit into a tight lay are all way more important moneymakers than a super sharp saw.
If you don't have an eye for bind forces, It isn't gonna matter much if your saw can cut, because it'll be stuck in log binds constantly.
I keep my saws sharp, just like my knives and turning tools. But it is my ability to kill trees efficiently and cut them into pieces that makes me money, not the last 10% sharpness of my chain.

Not only was Jesus black, he was a woman.

I've said that from the start.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Consider rehab, Cory.

 

[cory]

Maybe an intervention, lol

 

[cory]

Sure a sharp saw is essential, but you are not talking working sharp, here. You are talking cookie cutter/ saw nerd sharp.
Totally unnecessary. In my work, economy of movement, an eye for lean, fiber run and what you can fit into a tight lay are all way more important moneymakers than a super sharp saw.
If you don't have an eye for bind forces, It isn't gonna matter much if your saw can cut, because it'll be stuck in log binds constantly.
I keep my saws sharp, just like my knives and turning tools. But it is my ability to kill trees efficiently and cut them into pieces that makes me money, not the last 10% sharpness of my chain.

How often do you guys get dull by hitting the ground, per week or month or year?

 

[Cold Logging]

Depending on what is being cut. But generally daily or every.other day. . When.bucking a blow down patch, getting in the grit is the single most frequent means of the chain getting dull.
Try as I might it happens more than I wish.it would. . And throwing a chain takes its toll also.
Life can be good, back don't hurt, saws cuttin like a laser sword. Then, ignore that thot to stop and snug up the chain. . . . . .
Then the cussing starts, cause the chain that was AWESOME will now have a lump lump lump it the limbs and in the face. Then ya know that your back WILL start hurting and life won't be quite as good.

Oh well.

 

[cory]

Then ya know that your back WILL start hurting and life won't be quite as good.

Oh well.

Yup. Been there.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Sparks suck.

 

[cory]

Big time

 

[FireFighterZero]

Oh I don't know, I think it's a great thread, it's given those of us who are less than 100% certain of our sharpening skills some food for thought. I haven't understood everything that's been said but I was in the workshop this afternoon, filing, looking, testing.
Sometimes I'm great, sometimes less than great, understanding why and where I'm going wrong is what I want.

Heck yeah. This thread has gone over three hundred posts. A real winner in my book.

Shit, if'n the damn thing will cut when I'm done I am happy.

Makes me think though, we used to polish injection pump parts with newspaper in college.

 

[Cold Logging]

Tho I'm of the opinion that a razor sharp chain properly jointed on a good straight, true bar is 10× more important than what powerhead is pulling that chain. As far as it making a cut goes anyway. The fact is that just a good consistent chain on a good bar will get the work done. This thread is great in bringing up a lot of the skill and consistency needed to make chains fun to have in a cut. And that in itself is hopefully what everyone is getting from it.

 

[Mick!]

This is not going to get better.
The more I try test and learn, the more I see how little I have known in past when I was working with saws.
I also get reminded frequently I have a lot to learn yet and there is no limit to how good it can be.

Sod it then, I won't bother

 

[FireFighterZero]

I found that quite funny. Well, I am also three quarters drunk.

Living the good life.