Secured vs. Tied In

[Burnham]

I recently found myself digging through my Z133.1 (2006) after noting a quote from the 2012 version (which I don't own), in the new Sherrill catalog...which said: "ANSI Z133-2012 (6.3.7) Arborists shall be tied in and use a second means of being secured (i.e., work-positioning lanyard or second climbing line) when operating a chainsaw in a tree. Using two work-positioning lanyards or both ends of a two-in-one work positioning lanyard shall not (my bold) be considered acceptable as two means of being secured when using a chainsaw in a tree. EXCEPTION: When the employer demonstrates that a greater hazard is posed by using a second means of being secured while operating a chainsaw in that particular situation."

Looking at the 2006 edition of the Z, I can see that the same basic premise is there too, though not quite so clearly stated in one sentence, that is, to perform any work in the tree (not limited to chainsaw use), the climber has to be tied in, which is specifically defined as with a climbing line...not just secured, which can mean a lanyard OR a climbing line.

Frankly, this point had escaped me over all these years. It means that no matter how you ascend, you have to set up a climbing line system before you can do any work. ANY work. Of course, it means that being secured by two lanyards while operating a chainsaw is not meeting the Z133 standard. I have worked out of compliance with this direction a great many times, coming out of old school PNW spur climber ranks. I suppose I can see some wisdom in it for chainsaw work...but ANY work?

Interested to hear what y'all think.

 

[stig]

So you can't cut your way up through the branches on a conifer in order to get to the top and set your TIP alternating lanyards as you go.

I better get REAL good with the Big Shot.

 

[quabinclimber]

i can see the safety merit with this thinking; it would make an aerial rescue easier however, If I'm doing a pine, spruce, hemlock removal, you can bet I am cutting before i reach my tie in point.

 

[Burnham]

Exactly, that's my thought to a T, Stig.

As you say too, Quab.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It's a buncha digested hay and grass.

 

[Burnham]

 

[Husabud]

I am not sure I understand how an A.R. Would be easier being tied ,or secured, to the tree in three places. I do not consider my climbing line a securing point if used alone. I always lanyard in before a cut.

If this holds water, Nick had better get a sight on the APTA.

 

[wiley_p]

It's not that difficult of a concept. The ability to self rescue is a fundamental concept for any pro climber. Having your rope system rigged and ready to go whether it be in DdRT or SRT configuration means that you can get to the ground in the event of an emergency if mobile, or it makes it easier for a rescuer to get you down.

 

[pete mctree]

It's not that difficult of a concept. The ability to self rescue is a fundamental concept for any pro climber. Having your rope system rigged and ready to go whether it be in DdRT or SRT configuration means that you can get to the ground in the event of an emergency if mobile, or it makes it easier for a rescuer to get you down.

Agreed - not the hardest system to put in place on 95% of all trees & no excuse not too IMO

 

[MasterBlaster]

I love it when I'm told what's best for me! LOVE IT!

 

[Husabud]

I must be missing something.

 

[Burnham]

You don't need three secureings, just two. But one must be a climbing line system, a pair of lanyards doesn't pass muster, even if all you are doing is putting up a nest box with a hammer and nails after spuring up 25 feet.

 

[Husabud]

I understand that part of it. My loss is in how being tied in three times including your climb line makes an Aerial Rescue easier. I am still climbing roughly 50/50 Ddrt/SRT . When SRT, I use a basal tie. This does make it easier for an AR if needed. When climbing Ddrt I don't see the benefit.

 

[Burnham]

Where do you get the tied in three times, Bud?

 

[Burnham]

It's not that difficult of a concept. The ability to self rescue is a fundamental concept for any pro climber. Having your rope system rigged and ready to go whether it be in DdRT or SRT configuration means that you can get to the ground in the event of an emergency if mobile, or it makes it easier for a rescuer to get you down.

I can agree with this Dave, in general. I do have doubts about the need for it to be a blanket policy. In my field we do so many types of work that do not carry the risks associated with chainsaw use aloft...and so much of it is in conifers.

Agreed - not the hardest system to put in place on 95% of all trees & no excuse not too IMO

Maybe 95% of the trees in your working sphere, Pete...not in mine, by a long shot. Again, I'm not really opposed to this in general, but especially for work in conifers it seems to me that it can be an unneeded burden, most especially for work not involving a chainsaw.

 

[Page]

Isn't the law just saying that you have to have these tie in points unless you think you don't, leaving it up to us to decide?

 

[Husabud]

Where do you get the tied in three times, Bud?

And this is why I generally wait until I have eaten after a day of work to look at anything important.
After re-reading your OP, I see that 3 is not the operative number here. Being that I darn near always have a TIP, I was thinking in a different direction.

 

[Burnham]

Isn't the law just saying that you have to have these tie in points unless you think you don't, leaving it up to us to decide?

Well, ANSI isn't law, but rather an advisory for accepted industry standards. But a state or Federal OSHA will usually refer to ANSI standards when leveling a fine for an employer who is not meeting those standards, and OSHA seems to get to act like that makes it law.

If an accident occurs when an employee is operating outside of the ANSI standards, then the employer would have to prove that it was because the activity met one of the several exceptions. There are only a few exceptions noted in the ANSI Z133 altogether. If the employer cannot prove that, then they are in violation for allowing the employee to operate contrary to the Z133 standards.

 

[SimplyArbor]

If I'm not mistaken Burnham, the two tie-in only applies when working aloft with a chainsaw (as per the sentence you quoted from the 2012). I climb pines everyday and my typical set up is positioning lanyard and climb line set above me. Even if i only throw it two whorls up, it still give me an overhead tie-in and then can lanyard in and work... Get up the tree how you like, just have a climbline/lanyard combo when cutting...At least that's the way I read it.

 

[Burnham]

There is a difference between being tied in and being secured, that's perhaps my main point here. I agree that you don't need two attachments to the tree unless you are using a chainsaw. But the rules say (in my 2006 Z anyway, like I said, I don't have the 2012 to refer to) that you have to be tied in to do any work. Secured does not meet the standard.

And appendix A defines tied in as being on a climbing rope system; secured can be either a climbing rope or a lanyard...so according to the Z I cannot spur up and hand saw off a dead branch on lanyard and spurs, I have to set a climb line before I can do any work. According to the rule, once I set that climbing rope I don't have to keep the lanyard on, as one attachment to the tree is ok since I'm not using a chainsaw...but I have to set the climbline. That's the part I find overly cautious, I guess.

 

[Pelorus]

I use my climbing line as a secondary work- positioning lanyard (not set up as a TIP) on a lot of removals.
I just don't see how the theory is gonna affect my practice. It's a their world vs my world kinda thing.

 

[Burnham]

Hey, John...good to read you!

No, secured does not mean three points of contact. It means attached to the tree by either a climbing rope system or a lanyard.

I can totally agree with you about not ascending without having a rope with which I can reach the ground with me...but this rule goes further. It says you have to set the climbing rope system every single time you do "work". The Z committe has it that we have to be all set to self rescue, or so we can be resued, by having the descent capability deployed before you do the least little thing.

Having a way out is a some bit different than having that way out all set before you do any work at all.

And you are right, sole proprietors do not have to listen to OSHA at all...OSHA governs workplace safety, as that workplace is managed for employees by employers. That's my understanding, anyway.

 

[Burnham]

Here's the definitions of secured, and tied in, from appendix A of the 2006 Z.

secured (person) (8.1.19): When an arborist is safeguarded from unintended movement by utilizing a
climbing system that is attached to the arborist and connected to a tree or other stable support. Examples
of being secured include, but are not limited to, (a) being tied in, (b) using a work-positioning lanyard, (c)
being on belay, and (d) ascending the arborist climbing line using the footlock technique while utilizing a
Prusik loop or ascenders.

tied in (5.7.9): The term that describes an arborist whose climbing line has been run through a natural or
false crotch attached to an arborist’s saddle and completed with a climbing hitch or mechanical device,
permitting controlled movement and work positioning.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Relating to another thread and I think what Bud was up against recently, whether you can tie in solely to a crane hook or get lifted at all, if you have two sole proprietors on a job, say a self employed crane operator and a self employed climber, you don't have to listen to OSHA or ANSI? I think you still do, basically, or maybe you just need an operator that is willing to get out of the cab and unhook the pick? Perhaps they figure that one or the other is technically the employer? I don't think that there is anything really new about OSHA making rules that can be deemed over cautious and inconvenient in some situations, including wearing a hard hat all the time.

 

[Graiskye]

Well, ANSI isn't law, but rather an advisory for accepted industry standards.

Thanks for small blessings.
I think it is ridiculous actually, for all the obvious reasons.
I climb in the real world, not in the imaginary theory world.