Remnant Old Growth

No, we don't, and more importantly, we can't. But that most definitely is not the only piece of anti-logging I keep hearing from you.
 
I think Julia Butterfly is a hero. But I also believe that humans are needed to manage the forest and we need trees. I think we have done a shitty job of managing our forests. I have walked the pacific crest trail from crater lake to Mt Hood in Oregon and seen some amazing woods and some amazing trees. I also saw some reckless destruction.. Can it be done right? absolutely. Are there people doing it right? absolutely. But the fact is that Michigan was cut right to the ground with no thought to the future. That is happening right now in BC, right now in Siberia, Indonesia, and vietnam. Tasmania was sold off to China. There is little left in the lower 48 that matters much outside of Oregon and Washington. Is there much controversy anywhere in the lower forty eight right now? I haven't heard about any logging protests for quite some time. We are arguing about something that ended 15 years ago because there is very little left. They are logging old growth canada with amazing speed. I presume there will be some protests when that gets to about 5% of the original expanse...
 
cory said:
Impressive resume, Cody.
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Thanks pard...I did a lot of traveling! Came with the territory of being a tramp timber faller for a Helicopter outfit.

kevin bingham said:
I think Julia Butterfly is a hero.
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Portrayed in the media, she was a hero, unfortunately. There were many others before her that deserve that credit.

kevin bingham said:
I think we have done a shitty job of managing our forests.
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I agree, around here now, they let them all go up in smoke, instead of logging them first!
I have walked the pacific crest trail from crater lake to Mt Hood in Oregon and seen some amazing woods and some amazing trees. I also saw some reckless destruction.. Can it be done right? absolutely. Are there people doing it right? absolutely. But the fact is that Michigan was cut right to the ground with no thought to the future. That is happening right now in BC, right now in Siberia, Indonesia, and vietnam. Tasmania was sold off to China.[/QUOTE] I agree that is happening right now in those places, but not here.
kevin bingham said:
There is little left in the lower 48 that matters much outside of Oregon and Washington.
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I am sure there are folks from plenty of other states that would disagree!
kevin bingham said:
Is there much controversy anywhere in the lower forty eight right now? I haven't heard about any logging protests for quite some time. We are arguing about something that ended 15 years ago because there is very little left. They are logging old growth canada with amazing speed. I presume there will be some protests when that gets to about 5% of the original expanse...
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There sure is! Right here in the valley I live in. Every time a commercial logging sale goes up on federal lands, there is some group right there to try and shut it down...its a frickin joke!
 
kevin bingham said:
California, idaho. Where else?
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Well, a couple more, where I have seen plenty of old growth: Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado....you started out with two.

kevin bingham said:
You could fit all the old growth in the lower 48 into maybe massachusetts?
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Really? Did you figure that out with google earth? I have personally seen, vast amounts of old growth in every one of those states. Remember, it doesn't have to be a huge tree, to be old growth.

Since you don't believe in land ownership, and are so disgusted with all the devastation loggers have caused, maybe we should destroy every man made thing in this country, and give the earth back to herself? I wonder where we would all live then? You live and work, in a city, that...I am guessing here, is a big clearcut that used to be old growth? And it sounds like the whole state of Michigan is that way, minus the 40 acre tract. That sucks! BUT, it is not that way here, and hopefully never will be, and if it ever is, it most certainly will not be caused by the logging practices of today. I hope there isn't one more acre of timber locked up, never to be touched again. You should move out this way, and spend some time recreating in every place that has been reserved for that purpose, and see how long it takes you to explore every acre of every one of those places, and most importantly, all the timber that has been untouched by loggers.
 
I partially agree with the latter part of your statement, however I do believe in humanity. We are the ultimate beings. Some of us are complete culls, but I think most of us want to live our lives and survive as a species...for that I am glad, and I will keep living my life doing what I was born to do.:occasion5:
 
No need to quote the previous post.

And why are we the ultimate beings?

What have we done better than an earthworm for this planet?
 
I didn't realize I was quoting? We are the only beings to go to the moon. My first hand experience might be that we are the only beings to create badass chainsaws that allow me to do things that no other non human being can do...I could go on and on...
 
I am disappointed as well Pard, but I think that is because we have a human concience...another reason I think we are ultimate beings.
 
I do live in a city now. But I was born in new mexico, lived in Arizona and colorado, california and montana. there are some great areas. One of the mistakes they made out here was believing that it went on for ever. Colorado has great mountains inaccessible to the logger. Pine beetle has claimed a lot of it now. Montana did seem to me to be pretty cut over For how Big it is. lots of dense second growth waiting for a fire. There are some beautiful areas there as well It seems that the mistake they made in michigan was believing that the forest goes on forever.
 
I paddle through the swamps and creeks here and see the remnants of cypress stumps that boggle my mind and have to wonder what it was like. I also have to wonder how they got that giant timber out of some of these remote places with very limited machinery. The only old growth cypress left here are hollow or broken off. It's also amazing that they found and cut every one of them, they left no stone unturned, even in the most inaccessible spots.
 
The only thing I'll add is that trees are the only renewable resource that is being used somewhat efficiently. Plant, harvest, process, and repeat.
And what's considered old growth anyway? 100 years? 150 years? 250 years? 1500 years? 4000 years? The point I want to make is that any patch of woods will one day become old growth if left alone for nature to manage.
All that said dropping a giant redwood is on my bucket list.
 
We can also look at old growth prarie. How much of that is left with its original diversity? Precious little. I think that we are talking about places that have not met the global economic Machine. That is different from places that have loved with their forests and have used the forest for the survival of their community. The pines of michigan were used to build the cities of the east coast. The forests of Tasmania are being sold for pulp to china.
 
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