August Hunicke Videos

August Hunicke said:
Just between us though, there are a couple other dynamics that I'm not explaining even here that would cause the pros not too bat an eyelash if they were there. But blah blah blah, due to the weariness of the subject.
Like I said something that takes too long to explain isn't worth having.
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Well we got all day, lol. Nothing weary about it. What else is there to talk about....ropeknight again, zigzags ? To run, or not.... its a very relevant subject to all. I understand logging or forestry protocol when you're dealing with entire trees....but its still got to be logical. Arborist work in particular we are often dealing with stripped out or topped trees. And yet guys are running off, anywhere, for some reason. So, whatever the dynamics you refer to, they worth something mate, worth hearing about. Or, anybody ? Nobody really talks about it.

I watched a guy try to out run a maple once. Totally unexpected reaction. He just seemed to panic. The safest place for him was to stay put. He nearly made it but got snagged on barbed wire at the end. Wasnt seriously hurt but he still got mangled somewhat. His name was Ron.
 
OK well, it's not for lack of wanting to be understood by my colleagues. But even better for now would just be some level of benefit of the doubt based upon volumes of video from me staying put or moving only slightly as needed per case. I will have to draw a picture and talk at some length to explain my reasoning in this case, and even afterwards the video footage is keyhole-hindsight which appears to nullify a long explanation anyway because the slight chance of lateral stem or shrapnel dynamic lateral movement of forest pieces didn't happen down there in the bottom of my triangle anyway. if it had, I would have been out the door as shown in the video before impact but it wouldn't justify the choice when I could have cut a way out the back with more effort and just stood there. Or would it? because it worked just fine.
Anyway that's all the vague explanation I can give now without drawing a picture to explain the possibility for lateral movement, but gonna hang with the kids for a bit and play "pretty pretty princess" LOL..
I really appreciate you guys here talking about it though. Wisdom in a multitude of counsel is a good way to improve my life.
 
Sometimes you're better off running. Sometimes a stump make a big shield if you stay put. I've seen a branch flunk very far to the side, close to or over 100' toward people not too much farther away, and I've hidden behind big trees right behind the stump, effectively. too.

Forests or dumping a spar onto debris have some similar dangers.
 
SouthSoundTree- said:
Sometimes you're better off running. Sometimes a stump make a big shield if you stay put. I've seen a branch flunk very far to the side, close to or over 100' toward people not too much farther away, and I've hidden behind big trees right behind the stump, effectively. too.

Forests or dumping a spar onto debris have some similar dangers.
Click to expand...

if you fall a solid log on flat ground, cut at a low stump, its not coming back at you. How could it? It might wiggle about some, but so what. It is possible to propel a separate loose log on impact from a bigger one on hard ground.....but highly unlikely from a bed of brush on a forest floor. And even then, the chances of it heading back towards the stump....even less likely.
 
If your felling aim is off and the falling tree hits a standing tree out in front, it most definitely can come back at you, flat and clear ground underfoot notwithstanding.
 
RegC said:
if you fall a solid log on flat ground, cut at a low stump, its not coming back at you. How could it? It might wiggle about some, but so what. It is possible to propel a separate loose log on impact from a bigger one on hard ground.....but highly unlikely from a bed of brush on a forest floor. And even then, the chances of it heading back towards the stump....even less likely.
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That last bit, ...even less likely toward the stump, is where I mean that staying put is good, compared to heading toward the side. If stuff gets thrown back, the stump can be a good shield.

Falling wide conifers in an intact forest can catapult branches back. That's why it was sometimes easier to duck behind a tree, and watch out for anything from above, since risk from any of the the sideways flying stuff is somewhat covered by the blocking tree. Running through thick brush, even brushed out can be sketchy at times. My old supervisor was over 60. He was out of cartilage and out of running.
 
Allways top with a Humboldt. I know this is wayaaay off subject, and not to derail, and all that, but, I'm just saying, alllllways top with a Humboldt. Always. O.K?!!! Don't deviate from this ever, ever, ever. Unless there is absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing in sight that you could hit with the top. :drink:
 
I'm over 60 too, artificial hip and all, and I can run just fine when I need to...but I like being behind a substantial standing stem even better :).
 
Burnham said:
If your felling aim is off and the falling tree hits a standing tree out in front, it most definitely can come back at you, flat and clear ground underfoot notwithstanding.
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True, but thats just down to poor cutting. There was nothing to hit in that vid. And it was just a pole. Poles generally deflect pretty well and keep going with the hinge.
 
SouthSoundTree- said:
That last bit, ...even less likely toward the stump, is where I mean that staying put is good, compared to heading toward the side. If stuff gets thrown back, the stump can be a good shield.

Falling wide conifers in an intact forest can catapult branches back. That's why it was sometimes easier to duck behind a tree, and watch out for anything from above, since risk from any of the the sideways flying stuff is somewhat covered by the blocking tree. Running through thick brush, even brushed out can be sketchy at times. My old supervisor was over 60. He was out of cartilage and out of running.
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I agree Sean. But entire trees are different that stripped ones. Thats all Im saying.
 
Well...ok. Maybe no cutter ever made a poor cut, even though they know better and know how it should be done, never made a mistake. But I'm not that cutter...better than most, I'll brag it, but not perfect over 30+ years. It only takes once. I'm just an old worrywart...I prefer the insurance of being away from the stump. That is statistically the most likely place to get injured or killed in felling, has been for decades.
 
I agree with you on that, B, for the most part. Spar versus intact tree, possibly hanging up branches with other trees' branches are situational.

I heard from USFS S212 trainers that 80% of deaths occur within 8' of the stump. Seems like that also had some 8" and less component, but that seems like skewed stats. Its been 10+ years. Burnham, do you know what I mean?
 
No, I don't Sean. Industrial logging stats don't even consider a 8" or less stump "felling", I'd bet :).

And my memory from the S-212 instructors workbook is within 5 feet.

Either way, I think we can all agree that near the stump is a bad place to stand, as the tree goes over.
 
Burnham said:
Well...ok. Maybe no cutter ever made a poor cut, even though they know better and know how it should be done, never made a mistake. But I'm not that cutter...better than most, I'll brag it, but not perfect over 30+ years. It only takes once. I'm just an old worrywart...I prefer the insurance of being away from the stump. That is statistically the most likely place to get injured or killed in felling, has been for decades.
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Me neither. Ive made lots of mistakes in the past, but Ive never been hurt falling a tree. Im not saying hang around the stump for no good reason....but dont run off if it puts you in more danger. And, Im being specific here about falling logs....not trees in general. Some of the hardwoods Ive felled in years gone by, more specifically beech and eucs were over 100 foot high, with a similar spread starting about about 30ft from the ground. So, running off in some cases was more dangerous than staying within about 15ft of the stump.....because 100x100 captures/covers a lot more area when it lands than what does the first 30 of a 4 ft log.... if it goes back or sideways more specifically. I mentioned earlier about forestry and logging protocol. Doesn't mean its right for every situation. When i saw August running off the way he did in the vid, I couldn't believe it....and wondered who else does that.
 
Nobody does (or should, anyway), if there's any other option that's even marginally better. I didn't like it either, Reg.
 
Vid doesn't show whole story. It's a keyhole view.
I was clear when it hit and knew I would be out the door in time.
Gunned it dead on perfect between two other previously felled stubs impacting both of them at the end of the lay where they were nearly touching each other in an arrow shape. A slight miss to the left or the right (which did not happen) would have added some lateral movement to what I already knew was going to be somewhat dynamic. As you saw in the video, it was dynamic with the butt end flying 10 feet up in the air.
The video view obscures these details as well as other pieces here and there that could have gone airborne.
I don't say all this to justify it being a great plan.
I should have not shown it. And perhaps I should have just cut through the wall behind the stump and gotten out of the triangle and stood there with my eyes on the action.
At any rate, it went exactly as planned.
 
I appreciate this forum and the chance to be convinced to change the way my work can be seen.
 
August Hunicke said:
A slight miss to the left or the right (which did not happen) would have added some lateral movement to what I already knew was going to be somewhat dynamic. As you saw in the video was dynamic with the butt and flying 10 feet up in the air.
The video view obscures these details as well as other pieces here and there that could have gone airborne.
Click to expand...

Lateral movement ? so even more reason not to run along side. You even slowed the video for second there which added to the effect, or perception. Why would you do that ?
The log was bouncing up and down, granted....but at about 8 ft forward of the stump.

Having seen guys get smashed up on jobs, probably you have too....speaking purely from my own experience, its truly a traumatic thing to witness and get over. I even have one on video by chance, from 15 years back. Its not nice.

Call me boring, but I much prefer tree work without the drama. Clinical. Sorry Aug, its just not for me mate. If others think its cool then thats fine too. If a guy was running along side a falling log on one of my jobs Id tell him to keep running, all the way home. No offense.
 
Lateral movement on impact...after I was out the door.
But who cares if I can perfect a dodgy plan.
Agreed, that I shoulda just cut the jungle outa the back.
And again, glad to be able to change public image a bit even if I got fired in the process.
 
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