Ethanol fuel vs. 2-cycle engines

[Mr. Sir]

I have a lot of customers asking me about non-running power equipment that they own; saws, mowers, edgers, etc. Ethanol fuel is most likely the cause of these issues. Are there any quick fixes or additives that can be used after the fact, in lieu of rebuilding/replacing carbs and whatnot?

 

[sawinredneck]

Once to the point of not running at all, not really. Sometimes a shot of carb cleaner will loosen things up enough to get it to run, though not good on two strokes, but most times it's a carb cleaning that's needed. The best way to avoid this it preventative, either add a fuel stabilizer, dump/run all the fuel out of the system and keep fresh gas. They say the life span of gas now is around three months without an additive in it.

 

[Magnus]

The ethanol itself is likely not the problem, it is the circumstances around it...
Oils used that have problems mixing with it and settings. Not many oils can handle alcohol. There are many that claim it, but few that actually deliver.
If you have ethanol in the fuel and a good oil that actually work, you still need it to run richer to not develop too much heat.
Those that pay attention to the heat rarely have trouble.

I would not buy or mix more than a couple day's worth... As little as possible...

 

[Cut4fun]

I'm going to switch to this new stabilizer

* Perfect for use in cars, trucks and small engines!
* Prevents corrosion caused by today’s Ethanol blended fuels
* Helps remove water from Fuel
* Cleans fuel injectors, carburetors and intake valves for better, overall performance
* Recommended for use at every fill up


STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment http://www.goldeagle.com/products/10_oz_ethanol.aspx

 

[SkwerI]

Regardless of how some people from other countries think about fuel, they are not familiar with the fuel used in the US. The gas isn't the same. They do not have the EPA in their country dictating all sorts of emissions requirements which end up making our fuel very caustic and unstable. The additives put in our gas (the biggest one is ethanol) actually eat up some of the common rubber parts used for decades in small equipment fuel systems. The government answer is "So what, the new equipment will have components designed to handle the fuel". Our fuel is poison for older equipment.

Once something quits running due to our fuel, the most likely remedy is replacing the rubber components which have been eaten up. Carb kit, fuel line, impulse line, fuel filter. Of course it's rarely that simple since most people continue running equipment with broken parts until it just won't run any more. So most of the time there are multiple problems.

I wish I lived in Sweden where ethanol doesn't harm rubber components in older equipment. Of course that is mentioned every time this topic is brought up. I need to copy and save this post to reply every time somebody from a foreign country insists that they know more about our fuel than we do.

 

[sawinredneck]

I wish we could buy the Aspen fuel that everyone overseas raves about!
But Brian's points ring true, and it's about to get a lot worse, they are trying to mandate 15% ethanol now.

 

[Magnus]

Regardless of how some people from other countries think about fuel, they are not familiar with the fuel used in the US.

You are far from correct. Yours is better than the crap we have here. A pleasure to run and buy! Cheep and good as the gas was here in the 80's! People travel and work in other countries.
cuntries work together... You miss out on a lot...

The gas isn't the same. They do not have the EPA in their country dictating all sorts of emissions requirements which end up making our fuel very caustic and unstable.

Very ignorant statement... Surprisingly stupid to come from you...
You have no idea I guess and are likly not very interested in knowing either as it has nothing to do with your naiburhood... North America is just a tiny part of something bigger...
The requierments we have are a lot tuffer.
City here is not allowed to run fossil fuels...

The additives put in our gas (the biggest one is ethanol) actually eat up some of the common rubber parts used for decades in small equipment fuel systems. The government answer is "So what, the new equipment will have components designed to handle the fuel". Our fuel is poison for older equipment.

We heard this in Early 80's from our government and adapted. There was a fuel created that the saws run on. BTW.. It isn't Ethanol or any other Alcohol that is aggressive...

Once something quits running due to our fuel, the most likely remedy is replacing the rubber components which have been eaten up. Carb kit, fuel line, impulse line, fuel filter. Of course it's rarely that simple since most people continue running equipment with broken parts until it just won't run any more. So most of the time there are multiple problems.

With the gas sold in stations here the saw will last about 3-4 months...

I wish I lived in Sweden where ethanol doesn't harm rubber components in older equipment. Of course that is mentioned every time this topic is brought up. I need to copy and save this post to reply every time somebody from a foreign country insists that they know more about our fuel than we do.

I wish you could at least try to understand. It would help you a lot in future.
You do have access to same fuel, hell we get it from US!
You could have it a lot cheaper...
Instead it is shipped here, mixed and bottled, shipped back to North America and sold to a huge cost (still cheeper than here)

 

[CurSedVoyce]

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[Al Smith]

As a bit of info the ethanol affects most if not all engines 2 or 4 cycle .Fact being my lawn tractor doesn't run real well after sitting for the winter , log splitter ,lawn vacuum ,none of them . The stuff will cause the aluminum in the carbs to corrode .Evidently some sort of chemical reaction from my perspective .

It's not as noticable on something that gets ran on a regular bassis though . Usually it's a simple matter of opening the carb jets up for a few hours but on occasion it's been neccessary to rebuild the carbs on those items just as is need on saw engines .Just another thing .

 

[thattreeguy]

try marine fuel...but you will have to adjust your saws to it, and only run it or you'll be resetting your saws


theres canned pre mixed fuel without ethanol, but i figure thats for part timers

ive killed 1 blower....2 rebuilds, 1 new carb
1 hedge trimmer on a stick....rebuilt carb several times, thank god it was stolen, bet it pissed someone off, cause it was due for a carb....these are only on their 1st season, going on 2nd.......

this fuel sucks

i see them forcing electric battery powered crap on us soon

 

[Magnus]

I don't see why they would do that.

Get fuels that work, ask for it, demand it, show there is a need...
That is what we did here...

Brian...
Your EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) is controlled much harder by the politicians and those in actual power with money.
Naturvårdsverket (Our EPA) is as we speak trying to set your standards and laws higher. The different EPA's have tried to get a global standard, but that has been effectively prevented. Good for you, your poletichians and people in power has more sence.
http://www.naturvardsverket.se/en/
You need to look outside your borders a bit more, it is a good thing that help keep a sound mind and nation.

 

[SkwerI]

Magnus, please stop.

For once can we have a discussion on fuel issues without you derailing the thread from the very first reply?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I haven't been paying attention, but if he IS doing that I would ask him to stop and delete the OT posts.

But I ain't reading all that.

 

[Magnus]

Please tell me how I derailed it?

Am I not allowed to reply silly comments and remarks ??

 

[Magnus]

Well Ok. I see when I am not wanted...

 

[tophopper]

I think Magnus's replies were well thought out and on topic. He obviously knows more about it than you think he does.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sure, just stay on topic, please.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I need a fuel forum moderator.

 

[Magnus]

It is same topic.

Cause, components, results, property's, substances... Add laws and guidelines too and you have a fuel discussion.

Just because it isn't popular to hear or easy to grasp doesn't make it wrong!

 

[Magnus]

I doubt Anyone but me here have the interest to follow the fuel debates globally.
I really doubt even if you had the interest you could find good info in US. I had a hell of a time to find info, compared to here anyway.

 

[SkwerI]

I have a lot of customers asking me about non-running power equipment that they own; saws, mowers, edgers, etc. Ethanol fuel is most likely the cause of these issues. Are there any quick fixes or additives that can be used after the fact, in lieu of rebuilding/replacing carbs and whatnot?

Magnus, please read the first post of the thread again. Your rants about campaigning for National policy changes are not answering the question. Nothing you've posted has answered the question. But thanks for adding a bunch of posts to separate the current discussion from the original question. :roll:

 

[Magnus]

It doesn't take much brains to figure out what is aggressive when you have two fuels with alcohol in them, one aggressive one not...
But I guess you understood all this the other times I posted on this subject so I leave it be.

I really doubt I can contribute anything here at all...

 

[Magnus]

Magnus, please read the first post of the thread again. Your rants about campaigning for National policy changes are not answering the question. Nothing you've posted has answered the question. But thanks for adding a bunch of posts to separate the current discussion from the original question. :roll:

WOW.. You really can't understand a Word I write about this, can you...

The ethanol itself is likely not the problem, it is the circumstances around it...
Oils used that have problems mixing with it and settings. Not many oils can handle alcohol. There are many that claim it, but few that actually deliver.
If you have ethanol in the fuel and a good oil that actually work, you still need it to run richer to not develop too much heat.
Those that pay attention to the heat rarely have trouble.

I would not buy or mix more than a couple day's worth... As little as possible...

 

[Magnus]

The amounts of additives is a lot more today than ever before even if you disregard the Ethanol.
The really bad stuff is Benzene, fat acids and lots of other really aggressive stuff.

 

[Magnus]

OK then...
Have at it!
Please explain it then...

Not many here have knowledge about this...

Mike Acres and I talked about it a good deal when he was here trying to grasp this idea. He was already selling Aspen and here on a sales trip.
We looked at pistons and compared notes. I did the same with a bunch of dealers when I was in US/Can. Lots of fuel talk in many dealerships and in a few distributer offices... Talk about it here daily with dealers, distributers etc...
It is called knowledge exchange. You should try it, Brian... It could be good for you.