RopeArmour
TreeHouser
Any one know what the composition of the knife and anvil steel for chippers?
Got them redone and would like to retreat the edge.
Thanks
Got them redone and would like to retreat the edge.
Thanks
Chipper knife steel?
- Thread starter RopeArmour
- Start date
- Replies 15
- Views 3K
GrappleYarder
TreeHouser
Usually the whole point of sending them to a proper shop is that they do not overheat or change the temper of the knife. You should be good to go?
Raj
TreeHouser
Are they discoloured along the sharpened surfaces?
Here's a link.
http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheettext.aspx?matguid=12b36e60c17448e9a8180c8cb46cddd3
Any sharpening should be done under a coolant bath.
Jomo
http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheettext.aspx?matguid=12b36e60c17448e9a8180c8cb46cddd3
Any sharpening should be done under a coolant bath.
Jomo
Altissimus
TreeHouser
...when my knives come back, I install them and use....
brendonv
Tree Hugger
Bandit owns zennith now, or partnered iirc. No issues from what I've experienced.
It's been my experience that the expensive A8 steel chipper knives run on an 1800, on a high production crew, will last a month typically. Whereas the cheapo zenith knives of old could barely make a week.
Not saying they haven't solved their problem since 5 or so years ago.
But grade of steel and cooled sharpening makes a huge difference in performance longevity, IMO.
Jomo
Not saying they haven't solved their problem since 5 or so years ago.
But grade of steel and cooled sharpening makes a huge difference in performance longevity, IMO.
Jomo
sawinredneck
Treehouser
The whole blade should be heat treated from the start, so there shouldn't be any need to ever do anything to them other than sharpen them. As others have said, if there is any discoloration on the sharpened edge, blue or black specifically, then they will need to be re-hardened.
They don't HAVE to be sharpened under a coolant bath, they can be sharpened dry, they just can't take off as much material as quickly that way, and coolant is the better way for sure.
They don't HAVE to be sharpened under a coolant bath, they can be sharpened dry, they just can't take off as much material as quickly that way, and coolant is the better way for sure.
I tried a couple sets of Zenith knives six or seven years ago and found they wouldn't hold an edge as long as Simonds. A particleboard plant up here also tried Zenith a few years ago and also no likey. They sharpen their knives frequently, in house, on some German made zillion $$$ grinder. A neighbour works there, and a couple times a year he will ask if I have any dull knives.....
Noticed a few guys on the forums use Zenith and say they really like them, so who knows? Maybe they are turning out a good product now.
Noticed a few guys on the forums use Zenith and say they really like them, so who knows? Maybe they are turning out a good product now.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
I conceded that using coolant was the best method, but it can be done without. I spent 13yrs as a machinist, I've built custom automated machines, I've built plastic injection and blow molds, I've run five axis mills I could park three of my f150's on the table. I've even run the ovens used to heat treat with.
With the proper grinding wheel, at the right angle, you can take as little as .0001" per pass. There will be little to no heat built up. I've had parts on the grinder for an hour and when done properly it's barely luke warm. It's the asshats that want to take .005" or more, per pass that turn the steel blue, burn up the wheel, or belt. that cause the problems.
I'll bow to your expertise Sawin, I'm not a complete idiot yu know!
I have an older brother who's a journeyman machinist. Probably much like yourself.
I know I'd be lost without his knowledge and expertise on many of my prototype fabrication projects.
Thanks for the heads up mate.
Jomo
I have an older brother who's a journeyman machinist. Probably much like yourself.
I know I'd be lost without his knowledge and expertise on many of my prototype fabrication projects.
Thanks for the heads up mate.
Jomo
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #15
Thank you gentlemen for your time and advice.
Always something cool to learn here in da house.
Always something cool to learn here in da house.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
I wasn't calling anyone anything and certainly didn't mean to start a pissing contest. YES a wheel flooded in coolant is always the best, getting it done on a flooded CNC grinder is better yet! But really, how many of these guys have shops like that around? Now about any medium to large city is going to have a machine shop of some sort. Then most of these shops have had to grind specialty tools once in a while! I can't tell you the amount of lathe tools I've had to freehand on a green wheel to get the job done! So, you can ship it off, wait for it in line and wait for it to get shipped back, or have the guy in town set up the tool grinder that he really doesn't use that much anyway, and throw him some bones and get them back in a few days at most, and everybody is happy, certainly in today's economy!
Another perspective, chainsaw chain isn't much different in composition, at least as far as Rockwell hardness is concerned, and that is where the heat is produced when sharpening. Other than the CNC grinders, have you ever seen anyone run a flooded wheel on a saw grinder? I've sent some out for sharpening and the instant I got them I ripped them a new butt hole! When I see cutters with 1/8" burrs coated in black or blue, I'm not a happy camper! I, and I alone, sharpen my chains now! If someone was local and needed chipper blades sharpened, I'd gladly go down the street to the local machine shop and grind them in for them. On a tool grinder, without coolant, and feel fine about doing so.
It's all about perspective, I worked in a mold shop and these guys were scared to death of aluminum! They just hadn't cut that much of it and didn't understand it! I had a lot of fun with them! I'd get on the mill and max out the RPM, get close to max feed rate, let it rip and work it in from there. The feed/speed charts get you close, but always take tweaking to fine tune.
I was a guinea pig with some experimental tool steel, at the time it was called ASP30, no idea what it is now, it came out of the forge with a Rockwell hardness of 57-59, that's before heat treating! This stuff made D2 machine like butter! Carbide was the only way to cut it, I lost count of all the HSS endmills I burnt up trying different feeds and speeds! But it ground like a dream! Very little heat retention and it didn't warp as much as other tool steels when heat treated.
I started out in a pure CNC shop, the programmers motto was ".020" is as good as a mile!" God I hated doing dry runs in that shop! Once you were cutting the coolant covered everything so you didn't see how close things really were! We did tight tolerance avionics parts there, +/-.005" we used calipers on it! Ran my tightest tolerance part there, ever! It was a .1875 bored hole at +/-.0002"! Warm the lathe up, drop the cutter offset .005" depending on how cold it was, and hope like hell you could keep ahead of the changes as the bearings warmed up!
Anyway, the point to all my rambling, I have been there and done that! I walked away in 2003, I'd had enough of the feast or famine of it around here, you were either laid off or working 60+ hours a week, many times I worked more than 85hrs a week. I finally got pigeon holed because I could run a five axis and had a knack for being able to make the mill play nice with titanium. There's only so much titanium one can take in their life before becoming burnt out.
