Charging By The Hour: Rates For Crew/Equipment

[SouthSoundTree-]

I wonder about the idea of being able to somewhat build up enough local rep to charge by the hour, and what to charge for various equipment, and if this makes sense. Time is one of my most limiting factors. If I have enough of a customer base, would I benefit from skipping all the bidding part of the job, and change-orders to make them happy, etc.


I've been know to shake branches for filtered view pruning while the groundie stands on their deck/ patio/ vantage point next to them with the Senas, "Yes, remove this branch. No. No, No. Reduce this branch. Remove that one." They get it just how they want, not how they hope that they think they know how it will look by description at the bid.

Sometimes people ask about a day rate. I have a friend who is going to do a clearing job with his mini-x and needs felling and as much chipping as possible in two days.

Also, for storm work, I would like to be able to tell people a price to mobilize for the first hour and then subsequent hours at another rate. No bids for regular clean-up and run of the mill storm work. Significant storm damage, like a large, tipped, lodged tree or insurance work would be different.

I had a lady call who needs chipping and clean-up done after a storm. Another company is coming to do triage, but no clean-up. Rather than take 1.5 hours to drive there, bid the nebulous job, and drive back, I could say. $xxx to mobilize plus the first hour onsite, thereafter the price is 2/3 of $xxx (basically half an hour's expense to mobilize. or whatever, the proportion is sorta arbitrary), and we will be there (to you waterview home) at 8am, and should have you sorted out in a few hours. It would also give them more motivation to take more than one crappy cell picture.

It would get the crew working, rather than running around looking at work, or driving two trucks and chipper/ trailer around looking at storm work.

The pricing structures I'm thinking about includes:

Climber/ me, ground worker, chipper/ chip truck/ winch, mini loader/ bmg, 25 hp stump grinder.


Thoughts?

Pardon a possible bit of incoherence. Its late. I woke up from putting D to sleep (me passing out with her), and heavy wind comes again tomorrow.

 

[No_Bivy]

1.5 hr to get there?

 

[lumberjack]

1.5 hours to drive there, bid the job and drive back.

If you're working hourly, mobilization is a separate affair from your hourly rate, in my experience.

M to get there and have a short meeting about the scope of work in person.
X per hour based on the crew load. I have several machines and if I bring them all to a job that increases my mobilization cost, but I can still only run one machine at a time. I have a rate for a laborer, a rate for an operator, and a rate for myself and apply the correct hourlies to the job at hand.


With storm work, I try not to bid unless it's a small storm. We had a FEMA level storm last year, adjuster wanted a price on a job, give her the spill about not bidding when I'm this busy, we prefer to work by the hour and move to the next job. She needed a bid because the home owners had already had a high bid from a questionable person. My hourly rate was $1200/hr, my bid was $2300, the job took just under 90 minutes including tapping the roof. The other bid was just under $6k excluding tarping the roof.

 

[sotc]

We don't have a mobilization fee but if they are way out of town I might charge 1 way travel, otherwise time on site. I get no discounts on drive time, certainly not driving an hour and a half for free.
Surely you have an hourly rate, easy to project a daily rate from there. My day rate is 7 hours on site working. We have lots of clients that say come and do it and bill us. Rarely does that happen the first time, they see us work then do it from then on. I also have several commercial accounts set up on day rates or hourly.
Storm work is time and a half or double time. I can make more on bids but I'd rather just roll a crew out when they call. I get more jobs that way

 

[No_Bivy]

1200 per hour? Sounds like gouging to me.....but who knows

 

[lumberjack]

If they would have gone hourly, the fee would have been a third of the other bid... So the Internet crowd is either going to call it gouging or low ball hack. One day we averaged $1070/hr for 17 hours, with happy customers and insurance companies, they're who matter.

 

[treesmith]

I still haven't caught up on my rest from that day!

 

[lumberjack]

Or thrown that husky out!

 

[treesmith]

Well...that too...I wound up with a brand new 660 along about that time....wish I could remember where I put it...haven't used it yet...

 

[woodslinger]

I think I'm starting to get a grasp on pricing, but it still kinda overwhelms me. There was a post on here somewhere a while back where climber and groundie with chipper was $1200/day. I've been using that as my standard, which has become my go-to when people ask me how much I would charge to remove blah-blah tree, usually not at the location to view the tree. I typically tell them if it takes us a day, 1200, if I'm heading home at lunchtime, 600.
I do get a really good deal on the chipper though, Dad charges me 30/hour on the chipper hour meter, 50/hour if he comes along with it - still based on the chipper meter.
I'm not sure if any of that helps or not. It seems to me that 1200/day is somehow easier to hear vs 175/hr. Maybe its just me

 

[sotc]

Do you make a profit after overhead and job expenses with that? How long is your "day".

 

[woodslinger]

6-7 hrs onsite. Am I that low?

 

[sotc]

No, those were just questions to ask yourself really. As long as you're making paying what it takes to be legal, keep good equipment and make a profit (not just a paycheck), you're good

 

[woodslinger]

Now I got ya, I read that with the wrong "tone." I think I'm doing well. I still consider myself an "upstart" as I've been doing this for just under a year, and I could buy a cheap car for what I've spent at treestuff the last 2 months. The business account sure loves the tree days as opposed to the mowing ones.

 

[bstewert]

Sean, 90% of my work is by the hour, and I've just started charging a higher rate for the first hour. 90% of that is 10-15 min away, so I don't charge for drive time unless it's farther. But everybody I work for knows me, or is referred, so they know I'm not going to be spending half the time in the bushes on my cell phone. If it's simple removal, I should be able to tell them what it will cost. Pruning is different, because there are so many levels of detail. Personally, I like when they are there to "help." Most don't, but if they like to participate, all the better.

I really dislike the whole concept of free bids. In fact, to me, when someone solicits work and tells me the bid is "free," it says they are desperate, have too much time on their hands, and that the price is going to be extra high to make up for the fact that they might have to bid ten jobs just to get one. I know "that's the way it's been," or, "you can't blame someone for wanting to know how much something is going to cost beforehand."

I think the whole thing needs to be turned around. What doctor, dentist, lawyer, auto repair shop, plumber, electrician, etc, etc gives free estimates? You want their opinion? It will cost you "X" just to find out what it will cost you to do the work. If it's somebody you like, know, feel sorry for, or just want to do something for free, I have no problem. But I don't feel you should be handing out your hard-earned expertise, just to have them turn you down.

 

[NickfromWI]

I typically tell them if it takes us a day, 1200, if I'm heading home at lunchtime, 600.

I bid a half day as much higher than half the full day. If the crew is leaving at lunch (noon?) they won't get to the next job site until 12:30 or 1. If they are working an 8 hr day, that means they need to leave the job site at about 2:30 to be at the shop by 3 or 3:30...which means that afternoon job is really only 2 hours on site....so if I'm leavin lg your place at noon, I'm charging you about ¾ of our "day rate."



love
nick

 

[MasterBlaster]

Dunno 'bout that...

 

[sotc]

Makes sense

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sorta, but...

I sure wouldn't let the customer know my thinking.

 

[lumberjack]

It's a cheaper by the dozen kinda thing. I don't know that I would want to sell half days, like Nick says, it messes up the whole day. A day rate should be cheaper than equal hours, if it's committed before the day starts. A half day sounds like 4 hours to me.

 

[sotc]

3.5 to me

 

[squisher]

To much to me.

 

[woodslinger]

For me it works out, but I'm doing this part time and with little or no crew which makes a big difference. If things grow and I start running a regular crew then I will have to change my operation, and what Nick said makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[NickfromWI]

I guess I could've more simply just said, "yes a half day is 4 hours, but that really just means 2-2.5 hrs on site."


love
nick

 

[Mick!]

I see some of you fellas do it but it's an anathema to me.
Price the job, then if you finish early all the better.
I am exceptionally lazy though.
Occasionally I'll tell someone a long way away "it'll be a day so it'll cost x amount"