Trees you refused to climb and why.

[SouthSoundTree]

You sound to get a lot of bad ones Chris. Do you ever set up a highline for them, or typically just climb the bad one with have a swing "planned", just in case?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I do all the time if it warrants it Sean. The last one I was gonna high line fell over on its own with in 30 days... problem solved

 

[SouthSoundTree]

What rope are you using for the highline. I have two 120' hanks of HTP that I think will work well, should I need it.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I usually use 200-300 feet of new rigging line. Or a lower stretch climb line.. All depends .....

 

[Tucker943]

You sound to get a lot of bad ones Chris. Do you ever set up a highline for them, or typically just climb the bad one with have a swing "planned", just in case?

Theres no shortage of bad ones to be done around here. Not necessarily the biggest trees on earth, but big enough, and frequently in bad shape. Here's my guess. Theres not a ton of climbers in my area. Most work out of a bucket. So if a bucket can get to it, its done. But where there is no bucket access, and its a more involved tree that requires a good climber, the HO is sometimes challenged to find a company that will do it. So outfits around here that do actually climb, and climb well, get handed a lot of opportunity to lock up lousy jobs. That, and a lot of trees get neglected until they are crap. That's in a lot of places though I think. Not just here.

Ive always tied into another tree if I can, expecting a swing if things failed. I've had enough of that lately. Im really trying to avoid tree situations that are high risk to my life and body. I used to get a cheap thrill out of proving to myself that I had the balls to do it. Ive lost my desire to prove anything to anyone. I want to make a living and watch my kids grow up. That's it. Im not looking to die over some tree that some idiot let go to shit. Don't get me wrong, I'll bang out uglies if I know Im not pushing the envelope past reasonable, but Im done being a cowboy and climbing anything that comes my way just to put a feather in my cap. Its not worth it and I wont get rich by doing so.

 

[HolmenTree]

Well said Chris, I couldn't have said it any better.
Myself also being a family man with young kids my cowboy days are long behind me.

 

[RegC]

Chris, how old are you ? if you dont mind me asking that is

Unfortunately I dont usually get informed about a bad tree until the tree company (whoever that might be) has already talked their way into a job.

I dont think I could walk away from a tree with the thought that some other treeguy might take it on thereafter and pull it off....or worse, get hurt trying. So I just set my conditions on it rather than plain walk away. At which point you really have to impose and sell your reasoning as to why you're plan is the right one....if that includes collateral damage of some sort then so be it....so long as you're totally clear and elaborate about it beforehand, people usually respect that. It is still a business after all, and reputation/word-of-mouth is everything....word getting out that you couldn't do something is not good.

 

[woodworkingboy]

.word getting out that you couldn't do something is not good.

Doesn't that mostly apply if you are working for tree companies, like if they want to bring you in when there are difficult tasks that they may not want to tackle themselves? Keeping the image of the go to guy is your bread and butter. Working directly for consumers, I can't really see a refusal to do a job as being such a liability, the word not getting around about such an incident that may occur from time to time and end up putting people off. I don't think that consumers have sufficient logic about the work to be able to draw their own conclusions. If it was a regular thing, suddenly you aren't showing up like irregularities, it might be something else.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

I dont think I could walk away from a tree with the thought that some other treeguy might take it on thereafter and pull it off....or worse, get hurt trying.

Haha, thats exactly what would ensure I never would walk away from a tree (and never have).

Not that I give a shit about another climber hurting themselves if I leave it mind you... purely the pride of never having backed down.

 

[RegC]

Doesn't that mostly apply if you are working for tree companies, like if they want to bring you in when there are difficult tasks that they may not want to tackle themselves? Keeping the image of the go to guy is your bread and butter. Working directly for consumers, I can't really see a refusal to do a job as being such a liability, the word not getting around about such an incident that may occur from time to time and end up putting people off. I don't think that consumers have sufficient logic about the work to be able to draw their own conclusions. If it was a regular thing, suddenly you aren't showing up like irregularities, it might be something else.

I dont know if it does or doesn't. Its still treework that has to be done, only I probably go home with a lot less money at the finish than what a company owner would.I honestly cant say as a company owner if my thinking would be any different, because Im not one....but im still the same person regardless.

And to be fair the large majority of my work comes about through time constraints, as opposed to a being shortage of other guys around able to complete the task. Maybe only a dozen sketchy jobs a year where its a case of the latter.

Heres a good example from the summer. I set my own conditions though, to both the co-owner and the H.O....the point I made in the earlier post. Some reading and pics. I assume Butch will be cool about posting a thread from another forum, as he seems to be cool about most things. Thanks in advance Butch http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=365378&page=2&fpart=1&vc=1

 

[MasterBlaster]

Not a problem, brother.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'd like to know more about this.

 

[RegC]

I'd like to know more about this.

they're the guy-lines set in two different trees, pulling back the root fail tree. We didnt have a winch so used a 5:1 with 2 of us pulling on it instead. Its not fast by any means, but it does work.

 

[RegC]

The lowering devices are just to lock the line so you can reset the 5:1. We released the guylines only right near the end after removing enough weight that the tree could stand up without support. Be-it a slow process gradually moving them down the tree as each log came off.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've never done any of that. Interesting!

 

[RegC]

I've never done any of that. Interesting!

Pardon me, the 2nd two pics is actually a 10:1 pull....notice the additional green line which is a 2:1 pulling on the 5:1. Notice also how we anchored off that first cedar, then redirected from the bottom to top of the adjacent one, so to make it easier to work and reset the 5:1.....as opposed to set it directly to the second cedar and having to keep reaching up all the time. Plus with it being a fast tapered trunk the rigging woulda kept riding up everytime, and less secure. You know what I mean ?

 

[RegC]

I posted this particular job as an example of setting my own terms to completing the task in a safe manner with no damage. Without those surrounding trees however, there woulda been a completely different plan with collateral expected, but no more or less danger to me. So I haven't walked away, but am not being working foolish either.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Damn straight.

 

[Bixler]

Cool pics.

We specialize in large hazard removals. There's no backing out once we get the job, just have to be really careful.

 

[rumination]

Really nicely documented and explained there, Reg. And excellent work too.

 

[HolmenTree]

Guy lines do the jobs where you couldn't do without otherwise. Thanks to a few courses I took years ago on guy lines I have since worked alone without an employee and can still say I never have turned a job down yet. Do less climbing and more felling.

Here's a 86 ft 3 stem poplar I felled between a house and 2 right angle spans of 3 phase primaries thanks to the help of a 90 degree to lay guyline and pull line.
Not a climbing job due to the 2 stems closest to the stop sign had a heavy back lean onto a span of 3 phase primaries. So a falling job it had to be. This city owned tree was cleaned up and hauled away by the city work crews, I also ground out the stump.
I put a lot of extra wraps on the porty just to reassure the HO it was going to hold. If I don't use the Masdaam puller I'll use my pickup for tension as the other pics show.

 

[Szajer]

Awesome pics!

After seeing reg and his set up, it reminded me of all the times I've used a viable sourced tree for my tie in -as I've worked off the removal. The grim thought had always crossed my mind -what it would look like if the compromised tree fell, ripping my saddle in two, as I'm suspended by both. Always wondering if I'd have the time and mind to release from it before it took me with it....

 

[Tucker943]

Reg, I'm 30. Grew up being raised by a tree service owner. Been on tree jobs literally since diapers. There was a time when daycare wasnt an option and until the start of grade school, i spent my days in tree trucks. Got put to work evenings, weekends, and summers on the job when i turned 10 or 11. Dont go entirely off my age. My roots in this industry run deeper then one would guess. I'm not referring to backing out of hazard trees. If I can set the situation up right, ill do it without flinching. Always have. I'm done getting in trees that I am on the fence about If they'll kill me or not and collapse while I'm working. I am a business owner, with a wife in college, and 2 daughters, one of which has special needs. Those three people NEED me. If I die or get crippled, their lives are ruined. Now, take all that out of the picture, and I might have continued doing things as I did them for the first 8 years in business. I CAN'T leave these people behind. My wife would be beyond doomed if I died. Or worse yet became a financial burden to her by being crippled. I had to check my pride at the door a year or two ago and put my life into perspective. I've pulled wild stunts in my life both in this industry and out of it. At this point, my business is thriving for the most part and I have the option of choosing my work. Sometimes. Not always.

 

[Husabud]

Awesome pics!

After seeing reg and his set up, it reminded me of all the times I've used a viable sourced tree for my tie in -as I've worked off the removal. The grim thought had always crossed my mind -what it would look like if the compromised tree fell, ripping my saddle in two, as I'm suspended by both. Always wondering if I'd have the time and mind to release from it before it took me with it....

In a case where you really don't trust the other tree. Put a large zip tie between your side D and lanyard.if something fails, you will be released. although still going for a ride, you won't be in two pieces.

 

[Szajer]

Wow!

That's a fantastic idea.