Timber Framing

[brendonv]

For the brace pocket measurements i mean. But thats good info on peg location too.

 

[brendonv]

Probably driving you crazy.

Does a tie beam bear any weight? The span is 18' total, then i'd have two braces so a 12' /- free span. Can i do this in 8x8 white pine or spruce.

 

[Dave Shepard]

Is there going to be a loft? In Jack's red book, he mentions going wider with the 12'x16' frame. At some point he suggests going to an 8'x10' tie beam. I don't think it would matter if there is no loft. The tie beam is mostly in tension from the rafter thrust. What do the plans say, or are you working on a different frame?

Not exactly sure which measurements you mean. Once you have the mortise face laid out 7.5" from the reference edge, you will pull the other dimensions from your post top shoulder down to the nose of the brace, then go back up from the nose to get the other end of the mortise. That should be in the Sobon books, but I can do a sketch later and post it here.

 

[brendonv]

No loft.

The plans from gibson timer framers had wacky measurements. Even some to the 32nd. Weird. I have plans from jim for a shed, using 8x8s i was going to use this as a guide and change width, height, and length, also reference the gibson frame plans too.

I answered my own question on the layout. Found a good read and it clicked.

 

[Dave Shepard]

I've never seen measurements smaller than 1/16", and that is for rafters, no way around it really. 1/32" is just getting silly.

 

[brendonv]

Ya it's weird. Strange layouts for sure. But the base is there to go off and I can compare and modify with my other plan.

 

[Dave Shepard]

Stopped in at the Sobon/Carlon workshop at Hancock Shaker Village this afternoon. They managed to get most of the frame done and raised this afternoon.

12'x14' Dutch House frame:

 

[brendonv]

Wow thats awesome dave.

Wish i could attend something like that.

On the other hand my stick framed building is coming along.

 

[cory]

Lookin good, B.

Particle board? You?

 

[Dave Shepard]

Nice! Is that all your own lumber?

 

[brendonv]

Yep all my lumber.

Bought the ply floor, and crappy particle sheathing though.

 

[treesmith]

Lookin good, B.

Particle board? You?

To be fair, that's OSB (oriented strand board), which, as those who've worked with both can attest to, is far superior to particle board.

 

[brendonv]

Yes your right, 7/16" osb

 

[cory]

Cool, I learned something. I've never worked with either

 

[Dave Shepard]

Also known as barf board. Keep it dry and it's a good product. Get it wet, and you've got barf.

 

[Burnham]

Yep, but very good once it's enclosed. As it has to be.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Take the OSB3. It cost a few bucks more but it has more glue in it, so it can better sustain the humidity.
Not liquid water like rain nor dirt contact though.
Careful with the splinters

 

[brendonv]

Hello.

I was going t order the mk2 soon. Im wondering, if there is one, multi purpose /get it done sharpening stone. What could you suggest for me to purchase?

 

[Dave Shepard]

Norton offers a set of waterstones that is a good complete start point. I use DMT diamonds and a King 8000 to polish with. Oil stones are slower than molasses rolling uphill in January.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Water stones (generally Japanese), have much replaced the use of oil stones. Oil stones don't wear as fast generally, and water stones require more maintenance to be kept flat. Water stones of which there are many different brands and grits, give excellent results. You will also need something to flatten them off, and consistent attention to that as you use the stones is very important. Some guys will flatten after every use, and it isn't a bad approach. For sharpening of chisels, knives, and plane irons, using two grits is very standard. I like first using an 800 or 1000 grit and then a 6000 grit. I have stones that go all the way up to 13000, that will give a mirror finish. There are natural mined water stones, but the good ones are extremely expensive, as most mining operations for them have shut down. Synthetic stones have much evolved and are excellent now. There is some debate whether natural stones will give a longer lasting edge or not. Having a proper sharpening set up that can keep your stones in good shape and ready for use, especially if you are particularly working at the same location like your own shop, the stones not just sitting in a bucket if water type, makes things a lot easier. You need to keep flooding them and washing them off as you use them with a tool. I have some oil stones, but rarely use them except for with some turning tools. Like Dave suggested, I've gone through many King brand stones over the years, they work ok too. The course ones wear very fast, there are better. Grits vary somewhat in the ratings depending on manufacturer.

Many folks like the Shapton water stones for sharpening, I haven't tried them. I am currently mostly using Sigma brand stones. Googling either will get you results for purchasing in the US. A good low speed grinder is also helpful for reshaping edges. A well set up sharpening arrangement can't be minimized for getting good results from woodworking tools.

 

[brendonv]

Thank you sirs!

 

[Dave Shepard]

Now that I'm at an actual keyboard, I can elaborate. If your chisels are in good condition, then you only need two grits to maintain them. A DMT fine/x-fine stone would be good for honing, and a fine waterstone of 6000 to 8000 grit for polishing. The King 8000 waterstone I mentioned is well respected for fast polishing and good quality. I have the 4"x10" DMT stones, but you could get away with the next smaller size, which is something like 3"x9". The really small ones like 2"x6" are too small. The Norton kit I mentioned has two combination stones giving four grits, a lapping stone for flattening the other stones and an instruction video. For those not familiar with waterstones, they wear out as you use them. This exposes fresh, sharp grit. In order to keep them flat enough to use, you lap them on something. There are several ways to do this. Using a lapping plate, wet sandpaper on a flat surface or a diamond stone, among others. I have the coarse/x-coarse DMT as well, and I use the coarse side for flattening my 8000, and do not cut metal on that side. I jump from x-coarse to fine when sharpening.

Norton starter kit from Amazon.

DMT stones at Highland Woodworking.

Veritas/Lee Valley honing jigs.

 

[Dave Shepard]

Hit post too soon. Don't be afraid to search around for pricing. I usually buy my stuff from Highland or Lee Valley. I got the camber roller for my MKII guide. That "vise" type guide has it's merits as well. You have to make a little registration jig to get is set up for different degrees. If you want to save the money on the guides, I can show you my homemade jig for chisels and slicks that you only need a little magnetic angle finder to use. I don't use the MKII for chisels anymore, and it won't work on slicks.

 

[woodworkingboy]

The guy in this vid is an Australian that has a business selling stones over here. No matter what brand of water stones you use, the principles are the same. Some stones require more soaking time than others before use, and don't be afraid to use a lot of water when sharpening as well. As Dave mentioned, as the stone wears, the continually exposed aggregates will continue to cut well, but water washes off residue and prevents clogging, while also lubricating. The plastic holders in the vid are probably a good idea for sharpening when out on a job, but in your own shop if you have the space, I'd recommend making a dedicated sharpening area. I made a shallow Redwood sink with a drain hole that is attached to the wall with a light over it, over thirty years ago for sharpening, and it still serves my needs well. The stone sits on a block above the bottom of the sink when sharpening, and I have a separate container reservoir off to one side in the sink that the stones can soak in. I don't use a squirt bottle, but just stick my hand into the reservoir and cup some water when I need to wash off a stone during use. The stones when not in use, either sit at the other end of the sink, or are on a shelf directly above.

Some folks are more particular than others in keeping their stones flat, but truing them up regularly is a good habit to get into. I do it about every second or third sharpening, or maybe every time if it is a critical task at hand. Doing it infrequently will allow a belly in your stone, not good. Flattening removes more stone material compared to when sharpening. I have never used a feeler gauge to check for flatness. Stuart in the vid probably doesn't normally either except to show as an example of flat. For gouges and such that will wear grooves in the stones, better to use small stones for slips. Old worn out stones work good for that, or smaller and cheaper stones night be available for the more infrequent use. Dedicate your good stones to tools that require the finest result and that don't harm the stones beyond normal wear.

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[Dave Shepard]

This is my jig for sharpening chisels and slicks. I put the magnetic angle indicator on the stone first and zero it. Then I stick it on the very end of the chisel. I then slide the chisel, and stone if needed, back and forth until I find the angle I want. I use 30* for my primary bevel on chisels. Then I swing the chisel forward and backwards across the length of the stone. You have to watch to make sure the chisel follows the same arc, or it will change the angle. You will naturally get a slight convex shape to the chisel, as the corners will wear back just a little more than the middle. This is what you want. You don't need a machined straight edge. I personally think a straight edge is a disadvantage. After forming the primary bevel, I slide the chisel back another 2* and just barely form an edge. This is called a micro bevel. This saves you from having to sharpen the entire primary bevel every time you need to touch up the edge.