gf beranek
Old Schooler
Cool beans! another soul...
Spellfeller's Continuing (Mis)Adventures Aloft
- Thread starter Spellfeller
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Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #177
I learned a LOT today--or at least was forced to ask some important questions.
First, though, I want you to bask in the Glory of My Arboreal Excellence. I hope this picture doesn't make anyone feel insecure about their skills...
In all seriousness, that took almost an hour to untangle.
The long and the short of it is that tree work kicked my a$$ today.
It started with a bad night's sleep. I was watching tree cutting videos on YouTube until midnight (dummy!) and then woke up at five because I was so amped to get back to work on the dead maple in the back. Felt pretty lousy but couldn't get back to sleep.
I'd set the throwline yesterday afternoon to save time, but once the sun came up, the climb line wouldn't run over the branch in either direction, so I had to pull it down and re-throw. Wasted time (like picture above) was a theme today.
One of my a-ha moments was this: Each of us has a finite amount of energy to expend accomplishing a tree job. (And it's not a hell of a lot when you're an old flabby amateur.) Doing extra stuff--stuff you shouldn't have to do if you were more efficient and/or experienced--drains that finite amount of energy faster, leaving less for the actual job at hand.
Based on the great advice in THIS THREAD, I climbed up and reset the TIP without spurs to check and see if my 120' hank was long enough in DRT to touch the ground. It was. Just.
The problem was that 1) farting around re-tossing the throwline, 2) climbing up, 3) taking FOREVER to reset the TIP using the other end of the line, 4) waiting on my 12-year-old groundie to send up a stick so I could dislodge a stuck throwbag in the dead tree, and 5) untangling that disgusting rat's nest of oak branches, Long Shot, and Hawkeye took HOURS. Right when I was ready to work, it was time to go to soccer and then the local Greek festival. Gyros! Baklava!
Taking the time to do family things is #1, but any momentum I had was lost. When I got back home at 4pm, I suited up, connected to the climb line, which I'd left in the tree, and headed up. This setup was a little awkward but worked.
The afternoon session was a total goat rodeo: It took me 45 minutes to climb 60 feet the second time. I got about 20 ft off the deck and noticed I was climbing on the end of the line I nicked with the handsaw over Labor Day weekend. I think it's fine, but I'm not sure. (I'll take a picture later.) To be safe, I came down and tied in on the end with zero damage. At this point, I was making mental errors, like putting the split tail on the working end instead of the running end. ::eyeroll::
Of course I caught these things, but I didn't take it as a good sign. As I climbed, I was just gassed. Using a single foot ascender to climb DRT, gaining about 10" per stride in my ridiculously heavy chainsaw pants--which feel like the crotch is between my knees--lugging a full load-out was brutal. I was dreaming of a SAKA. A tendonitis-type pain in my elbow started to flare up.
This led me to my second insight: Sure conditioning is a factor, but I think I've truly moved out of "happy homeowner" type jobs and into more serious work. The problem is I still have hobbyist gear when it comes to accessing the canopy. I wish I had a nickel for every guy in his forties who's said SRT extended his climbing career. It's probably time for me to take the plunge...
Insight #3: Until I upgrade my current 1990's Blake's/DRT hotness, it's likely less draining to tie in to the healthy tree and just spur up the dead one with two legs, instead of ascending the good one with one leg and swinging over. File that under "Duh!"
When I got to working height, I had nothing left. As an old coach and an older athlete, I was ready to "push through." How the hell could I waste the whole afternoon work session by doing nothing?! Then my rational mind took over. If I continued to fight exhaustion, bad shiznit was not just likely but probable. Right after "SRT saved my body parts," I think the second most popular arborist quote is beginning the description of an accident with, "I was tired and hurrying..."
Down I came.
All was not lost. I learned some valuable lessons about conservation of effort and how equipment is more than just toys: it increases efficiency AND safety. Also, I think if I have another day when I feel like King Clusterf#$%, who's spending more time fixing errors than getting anything done, I'll pack it in earlier.
When I took the climb line down this evening, I tied a throwline to it which I'll leave up overnight. We'll see how I'm feeling after church tomorrow. Advil and ice for now. The trees won the battle today; I'm just happy to still be in the war!
First, though, I want you to bask in the Glory of My Arboreal Excellence. I hope this picture doesn't make anyone feel insecure about their skills...
In all seriousness, that took almost an hour to untangle.
The long and the short of it is that tree work kicked my a$$ today.
It started with a bad night's sleep. I was watching tree cutting videos on YouTube until midnight (dummy!) and then woke up at five because I was so amped to get back to work on the dead maple in the back. Felt pretty lousy but couldn't get back to sleep.
I'd set the throwline yesterday afternoon to save time, but once the sun came up, the climb line wouldn't run over the branch in either direction, so I had to pull it down and re-throw. Wasted time (like picture above) was a theme today.
One of my a-ha moments was this: Each of us has a finite amount of energy to expend accomplishing a tree job. (And it's not a hell of a lot when you're an old flabby amateur.) Doing extra stuff--stuff you shouldn't have to do if you were more efficient and/or experienced--drains that finite amount of energy faster, leaving less for the actual job at hand.
Based on the great advice in THIS THREAD, I climbed up and reset the TIP without spurs to check and see if my 120' hank was long enough in DRT to touch the ground. It was. Just.
The problem was that 1) farting around re-tossing the throwline, 2) climbing up, 3) taking FOREVER to reset the TIP using the other end of the line, 4) waiting on my 12-year-old groundie to send up a stick so I could dislodge a stuck throwbag in the dead tree, and 5) untangling that disgusting rat's nest of oak branches, Long Shot, and Hawkeye took HOURS. Right when I was ready to work, it was time to go to soccer and then the local Greek festival. Gyros! Baklava!
Taking the time to do family things is #1, but any momentum I had was lost. When I got back home at 4pm, I suited up, connected to the climb line, which I'd left in the tree, and headed up. This setup was a little awkward but worked.
The afternoon session was a total goat rodeo: It took me 45 minutes to climb 60 feet the second time. I got about 20 ft off the deck and noticed I was climbing on the end of the line I nicked with the handsaw over Labor Day weekend. I think it's fine, but I'm not sure. (I'll take a picture later.) To be safe, I came down and tied in on the end with zero damage. At this point, I was making mental errors, like putting the split tail on the working end instead of the running end. ::eyeroll::
Of course I caught these things, but I didn't take it as a good sign. As I climbed, I was just gassed. Using a single foot ascender to climb DRT, gaining about 10" per stride in my ridiculously heavy chainsaw pants--which feel like the crotch is between my knees--lugging a full load-out was brutal. I was dreaming of a SAKA. A tendonitis-type pain in my elbow started to flare up.
This led me to my second insight: Sure conditioning is a factor, but I think I've truly moved out of "happy homeowner" type jobs and into more serious work. The problem is I still have hobbyist gear when it comes to accessing the canopy. I wish I had a nickel for every guy in his forties who's said SRT extended his climbing career. It's probably time for me to take the plunge...
Insight #3: Until I upgrade my current 1990's Blake's/DRT hotness, it's likely less draining to tie in to the healthy tree and just spur up the dead one with two legs, instead of ascending the good one with one leg and swinging over. File that under "Duh!"
When I got to working height, I had nothing left. As an old coach and an older athlete, I was ready to "push through." How the hell could I waste the whole afternoon work session by doing nothing?! Then my rational mind took over. If I continued to fight exhaustion, bad shiznit was not just likely but probable. Right after "SRT saved my body parts," I think the second most popular arborist quote is beginning the description of an accident with, "I was tired and hurrying..."
Down I came.
All was not lost. I learned some valuable lessons about conservation of effort and how equipment is more than just toys: it increases efficiency AND safety. Also, I think if I have another day when I feel like King Clusterf#$%, who's spending more time fixing errors than getting anything done, I'll pack it in earlier.
When I took the climb line down this evening, I tied a throwline to it which I'll leave up overnight. We'll see how I'm feeling after church tomorrow. Advil and ice for now. The trees won the battle today; I'm just happy to still be in the war!
Broncman
Treehouser
Sounds exhausting! Unfortunately I can relate. I am nocking on 50 and still learning methods to conserve energy. My other side hobby has been fabwork for off-road race trucks and rock bouncers, I have learned on some days to just close the shop doors and come back later.
I did rig up a hand ascender with a pulley when I got really tired double roping. I put a prusek bungy type cord on my stationary line as far up as I could reach, hooked the hand ascender with a pulley on the moving line with the bungy from the fixed line clipped into the ascender.
Run the tail from the hitch through the pulley. Now you have a mechanical advantage that self advances each stroke. Great for when I am exhausted, but it is slow.
I did rig up a hand ascender with a pulley when I got really tired double roping. I put a prusek bungy type cord on my stationary line as far up as I could reach, hooked the hand ascender with a pulley on the moving line with the bungy from the fixed line clipped into the ascender.
Run the tail from the hitch through the pulley. Now you have a mechanical advantage that self advances each stroke. Great for when I am exhausted, but it is slow.
Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #179
Amen!
Sounds pretty cool! Any pictures?
EDIT: And welcome to TH! It's a great place with some incredible folks!
Broncman
Treehouser
I will mock it up tomorrow and take a few. Awhile back i made a difficult climb, at least for me, and my chain jumped. Sent the saw back down to my son and he took forever to fix it. I was so exhausted, I had to get some kind of mechanical advantage just to finish so I used it then. The stuff stays on my saddle.
Got a new top handle echo today that I will be trying out in the tree tomorrow.
Got a new top handle echo today that I will be trying out in the tree tomorrow.
Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #181
Thanks, Bronc!
Congrats on the saw; I've read LOTS of good reports on the 355T. Was set to buy one before I found a 200T that "a little old lady had just driven to church on Sundays."
My main ground saw is an Echo CS-590. Love it.
Congrats on the saw; I've read LOTS of good reports on the 355T. Was set to buy one before I found a 200T that "a little old lady had just driven to church on Sundays."
My main ground saw is an Echo CS-590. Love it.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Old age ain't for the faint of heart.
I sure as shit thought I'd last a few more years that I did...
I sure as shit thought I'd last a few more years that I did...
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Now go out and buy yourself a second throw line to keep at hand in case and a second hank of rope 
Good judgment calls Jeff,always best safe than sorry brother. That nest of a throw line uugh hate that😩😩 I definitely have my own methods of avoiding that as best i can. Also gotten pretty good at untangling them over the years...
Stephen put up sound advice there,with out an extra throw line you can get fookd if that piece gets wedged in the tightest little spot (as you have already found out!)
I wear my foot ascender under my gaffs and to the rear of the spike,haven't tried it any other way though.
I think that the drt with the split tail is the proper learning setup and you can progressively evolve as your knowledge,comfort and experience all come together.
That is just opinion though,you can utilize the knee ascender and foot ascender drt in a rope walk configuration just the same as srt and switch over to srt as your funds allow...this is all merely speculation/rambling.
Stephen put up sound advice there,with out an extra throw line you can get fookd if that piece gets wedged in the tightest little spot (as you have already found out!)
I wear my foot ascender under my gaffs and to the rear of the spike,haven't tried it any other way though.
I think that the drt with the split tail is the proper learning setup and you can progressively evolve as your knowledge,comfort and experience all come together.
That is just opinion though,you can utilize the knee ascender and foot ascender drt in a rope walk configuration just the same as srt and switch over to srt as your funds allow...this is all merely speculation/rambling.
Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #185
Thanks, guys!
I do have an extra throwline to be used if the whole shebang gets stuck. In this case, the bag (12oz) got trapped, but the girth hitch I had on it pulled through, so only the bag stayed in the tree. Then I switched to my 14oz. and hit my target using the original line.
The rat's nest occurred when I dropped one end of throwline to my groundie to send up the stick without securing the other end. It whipped out of my line mug faster than I realized what was going on and got tangled in a bunch of branches on the way down. He tied one end of the throwline to my climb line without flaking it all out and when I pulled it back into the tree, I created the mess in the picture. I did get the stick and recovered the 12oz. throwbag though!
Stephen, a longer climb line is definitely in my future!
Thanks for the "speculation/rambling," Samuel. It's actually really helpful!
I do have an extra throwline to be used if the whole shebang gets stuck. In this case, the bag (12oz) got trapped, but the girth hitch I had on it pulled through, so only the bag stayed in the tree. Then I switched to my 14oz. and hit my target using the original line.
The rat's nest occurred when I dropped one end of throwline to my groundie to send up the stick without securing the other end. It whipped out of my line mug faster than I realized what was going on and got tangled in a bunch of branches on the way down. He tied one end of the throwline to my climb line without flaking it all out and when I pulled it back into the tree, I created the mess in the picture. I did get the stick and recovered the 12oz. throwbag though!
Stephen, a longer climb line is definitely in my future!
Thanks for the "speculation/rambling," Samuel. It's actually really helpful!
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
There is an easy fix for this: put the saw wrench thingy in a place you have access when you have the saddle on (and up in the tree) and do it yourself. Just try to avoid droping it because it could be very hard to find it again in the ground mess.
I never use a throwline in the tree. If I need something, I send down the end of my climb line. I pack the throwline back in its box before the first cut and even before I put my saddle on.
Actualy, I kept my throwline with me in the tree once, only one time, not 2. I got something really similar, a time consuming tangle mess with rope, throwline and limbs.
Raj
TreeHouser
I carry less than 50ft of throwline, handy for some advancing PSP, mostly use it to set rigging/tag lines.
Don't fret about gassing. In my treework that's called an "inspection climb".
Don't fret about gassing. In my treework that's called an "inspection climb".
Broncman
Treehouser
Drop it.... I dropped my new CS355t saw today.... From about 15 feet! After the first cut in the tree I made with, I unclipped the lanyard to put it on a different spot on the saddle. Must not have got it because when I let go of the lanyard....I got to watch the saw bounce!
Amazingly nothing broke and it worked great the rest of the day.
Amazingly nothing broke and it worked great the rest of the day.
Raj
TreeHouser
Check that gear!
Grendel
TreeHouser
All the industrial athletes here are in damn fine shape, it takes time man. Just keep at it. Rec climb as much as you've got the stomach for. . .
Plan on spending a good part of your career untangling throwline. . .
And a big hurdle is being able to operate, or at least think clearly while your gassed. Sounds like you were able to do that, which is huge.
Cheers
Plan on spending a good part of your career untangling throwline. . .
And a big hurdle is being able to operate, or at least think clearly while your gassed. Sounds like you were able to do that, which is huge.
Cheers
Grendel
TreeHouser
And while we're on the topic, does anyone have a good way to really reef on throwline? I think that's one thing this industry is missing, is a way to put your body weight into those little lines without wearing out your hands or wrapping it around your boot. . .
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Reef on throwline?
Grendel
TreeHouser
Like really pull on it. hard.
Limbrat
TreeHouser
I wrap it around a piece of wood Sam.
Grendel
TreeHouser
Haha, I know right! I've tried all those things. I want something with a handle, and some clever design element that locks the line and releases/resets quickly. Like a little mini ascender or something. . .
Sorry Spell, this is stuff for another thread. haha
Sorry Spell, this is stuff for another thread. haha
...the towball of the truck...1st gear...yup its out.
Spell, I flake my throwline into a 3gallon paint pail, you can buy empty clean ones from the hardware store. Yes, it takes up more room when storing, but out on the job the line stays OUT of the twigs and crap. I have a little bag with three throwballs and a spare line that lives in the pail as well, and the head of my BigShot sleeps there too.
I had a somewhat similar day today, sketchy tree (lots of big deadwood and previous heading cuts) two bees nests, some baby parrots in a nest...after about three cuts, when I discovered the second bee hole...I quit that tree.
Well done for maintaining your situational awareness, that is SO important, know when to say when!
Spell, I flake my throwline into a 3gallon paint pail, you can buy empty clean ones from the hardware store. Yes, it takes up more room when storing, but out on the job the line stays OUT of the twigs and crap. I have a little bag with three throwballs and a spare line that lives in the pail as well, and the head of my BigShot sleeps there too.
I had a somewhat similar day today, sketchy tree (lots of big deadwood and previous heading cuts) two bees nests, some baby parrots in a nest...after about three cuts, when I discovered the second bee hole...I quit that tree.
Well done for maintaining your situational awareness, that is SO important, know when to say when!
Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #198
Love this idea, Peter. Thanks!
And I REALLY love this one!
Phew! "Echo Tough," I guess!
All the industrial athletes here are in damn fine shape, it takes time man. Just keep at it. Rec climb as much as you've got the stomach for. . .
Plan on spending a good part of your career untangling throwline. . .
And a big hurdle is being able to operate, or at least think clearly while your gassed. Sounds like you were able to do that, which is huge.
Cheers
Thanks, Sam. One of the things tree work is reminding me is that it shouldn't be my only workout. If I did it daily that would be one thing, but weekly/bimonthly just doesn't cut it. I've gotten away from a regular exercise routine (squat rack has tree gear hanging on it!) and that's a bad recipe for a LOT of reasons. Thanks to the trees for the wake-up call!
Spellfeller
Clueless but careful
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #199
No worries, man! It's ALL helpful to me!
Thanks, Fi.
It IS a skill I plan to keep, but my goal is for "throwing in the towel" to be just a bit further down on my list of arborist abilities!
