Burnham
Woods walker
Wish I could, but I can't agree with you Dave.
Ropetek Hitch Hiker
- Thread starter PCTREE
- Start date
- Replies 767
- Views 119K
arborworks1
Treehouser
Yeah should we go ahead send you money??
rangerdanger
TreeHouser
Double overhand for sure, just not fully dressed like they have stated.
As for the friction hitch, I'd go with a 5:1 VT as well. The cross is basically a braid like they have mentioned already.
And x2 on the money. Do we need to send it too you to reserve one?
As for the friction hitch, I'd go with a 5:1 VT as well. The cross is basically a braid like they have mentioned already.
And x2 on the money. Do we need to send it too you to reserve one?
sotc
Dormant hero!!
well in that case, send me your money to hold!
pete mctree
Treehouser
I think the hitch is a french prussic. The VT has wraps then braids.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
A french prussic or english prussic is a girth hitch with extra tucks. Commonly known as simply a 'prussic' its the most basic friction knot whether there are 2, 3, or 4 wraps.
The first one is definitely a 5-1 VT, you wrap fives time (coil) and braid once. Whether the cord terminates to to stopper knots tight eyes or whatnot the end result is the same.
The first one is definitely a 5-1 VT, you wrap fives time (coil) and braid once. Whether the cord terminates to to stopper knots tight eyes or whatnot the end result is the same.
I think it is the knot known as a Valdotain.
Not to be confused with valdotain tresse or VT, since it doesn't have any braids.
I seem to remember Jerry B. saying once that he used it for years as his prime climbing knot.
He just didn't use the french name for it.
Not to be confused with valdotain tresse or VT, since it doesn't have any braids.
I seem to remember Jerry B. saying once that he used it for years as his prime climbing knot.
He just didn't use the french name for it.
pete mctree
Treehouser
there might be regional differences in names, but it is NOT a VT.
I think Stig has it nailed
rangerdanger
TreeHouser
Stig indeed has it nailed. I climbed off this same hitch, expect with 7 wraps. 7 wraps upward and back into the dogbone. The bottom wrap works its way down into a braid, forming what looks like a 6:1 VT, but in reality is a 7 wrap valditorian.
Burnham
Woods walker
If it ends up with a braid, then why is it not a VT?
Frankly, I never heard of a valdotain without the tresse appelation added, so what do I know.
Sure looks like Paul crosses the turns with the final leg, seems like a braid to me. In which case,
.
But people have argued about what knot is called what since long before Ashley was in knee pants, so no surprise that this discussion is similar.
Frankly, I never heard of a valdotain without the tresse appelation added, so what do I know.
Sure looks like Paul crosses the turns with the final leg, seems like a braid to me. In which case,
.But people have argued about what knot is called what since long before Ashley was in knee pants, so no surprise that this discussion is similar.
mistahbenn
Treehouser
mistahbenn
Treehouser
Yes sometimes...
rangerdanger
TreeHouser
A valdotain is just a prussic cord wrapped upwards around the rope any number of times, and then brought back down to the crab or dogbone or whatever. The user does not braid the knot as one does with the VT, but the way the knot collapses when weighted creates what appears to be a VT. Dress it up nice and tidy tho, and remove the weight, and the braid goes away and it goes back to just a 7 or however many wraps you have on the line valdotain. With a VT, even when you dress it up it's still a VT, you can't unbraid it so its just wraps and not a combination of wraps and braids without removing one end of the prussic cord from termination.
Burnham
Woods walker
Can anyone really maintain with a straight face that this hitch Benn has shown does not finish with a single braid? I'll go to my grave positive that it does...just as Paul's HH hitch does.
Adrian, I respectfully disagree.
mistahbenn
Treehouser
It merely crosses once at the back. Is that a braid?
Burnham
Woods walker
I maintain that it is...not all agree, obviously.
mistahbenn
Treehouser
Funny, a simple google of valdotain only comes up with tresse.....
mistahbenn
Treehouser
Burnham, I do not add braids, or dress my knot, I simply add 5 wraps, then back to the carabiner. As RD says, the knot may change appearance naturally under load...
(maybe im getting in toooo deep.... ) hehe
(maybe im getting in toooo deep.... ) hehe
and know you are, however I always assumed a tress was where you wrapped the cordage around the rope below the wraps???
Burnham
Woods walker
Burnham, I do not add braids, or dress my knot, I simply add 5 wraps, then back to the carabiner. As RD says, the knot may change appearance naturally under load...
(maybe im getting in toooo deep.... ) hehe
You add a single braid by crossing over the bottom leg of the cord to attach to the opposite side of the carabiner.
As I said, I never heard the term valdotain used alone.
Paul, it's my position that you are doing exactly that with your hitch. And I'll watch the mailbox with great anticipation, my friend.
Burnham, my friend. I found this on Gary's sight. I hope it adds clarity and not just more confusion like my erroneous other post.
http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Ascender/KnotPages/KnotPenberthy.html
Dave
rbtree
Climbing Up
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,924
I'm a little late to this discussion....but, as I've been using a Valdotain, VT or french prussik since it was first introduced back around 1997, I'll chime in on what I understand of the terminology and method of forming the hitch. A Vt requires a braid...and for years, most arborists tied a 4 wrap, three braid version, which weaves the crosses over and under. What Paul tied is known as a simple French Prussik. Or perhaps a Valdotain....That term stems from the region of France that was home to the climber (s?) who introduced the hitch.
Personally, I tie my hitch both with or without the braid...and will go either 4-3 or 4-2....which may end up as 3-3..if it is just several wraps..as Paul's 5-1, depending on the amount of
excess cord, will end up as a 4-2 or 3-3 when dressed or weighted. Also, for a while, i only had a 24" 10mm, which was way too short and fat even on Blaze, so it forced me to use a 3-2 configuration.
Adrian, I like the look of your cooper hitch...may have to try it...does it work well with a 30 inch cord? I have a 30" OP, in 8 mm, which is unused and I was planning on returning it to Wesspur for a shorter length, 24 to 28". I'd keep it if I could as it is spliced normally, rather than with the bulky Grizzly.
Chiming in here for the first time to express a desire for a HH....I've resisted, as I use the Wraptor for most all ascents, and do more work in conifers, where I'm not sure I'd want to use SRT to advance to a high tie point, or take the time to thread the end back to the bottom to be tied off....
Chris, I got an advance excerpt of the TCIA SRT guide at the ISA conference. Looking forward to fine tuning my SRT skills, and learning it for working the tree as well.
Personally, I tie my hitch both with or without the braid...and will go either 4-3 or 4-2....which may end up as 3-3..if it is just several wraps..as Paul's 5-1, depending on the amount of
excess cord, will end up as a 4-2 or 3-3 when dressed or weighted. Also, for a while, i only had a 24" 10mm, which was way too short and fat even on Blaze, so it forced me to use a 3-2 configuration.
Adrian, I like the look of your cooper hitch...may have to try it...does it work well with a 30 inch cord? I have a 30" OP, in 8 mm, which is unused and I was planning on returning it to Wesspur for a shorter length, 24 to 28". I'd keep it if I could as it is spliced normally, rather than with the bulky Grizzly.
Chiming in here for the first time to express a desire for a HH....I've resisted, as I use the Wraptor for most all ascents, and do more work in conifers, where I'm not sure I'd want to use SRT to advance to a high tie point, or take the time to thread the end back to the bottom to be tied off....
Chris, I got an advance excerpt of the TCIA SRT guide at the ISA conference. Looking forward to fine tuning my SRT skills, and learning it for working the tree as well.
rbtree
Climbing Up
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,924
Good one Dave! Ah,, Larry Penberthy! One of the many early PNW gear and technique pioneers and innovators. I still have an MSR ice axe, his helmet was my first.....and I got the yet to be beat MSR stove way back in 1974 or so.
Another iconoclast was Bill Nicolai who started Early Winters. I still have my first sleeping bag, and down jacket, both EW, but more notably, as Bill was the first to incorporate Gore-Tex fabric in his products, I have what I believe is the 16th Gore-Tex item ever made, the superb 3.5 lb Light Dimension tent. Of course, the first generation GT didn't work for long, so it did leave me soggy a few times!!
Another iconoclast was Bill Nicolai who started Early Winters. I still have my first sleeping bag, and down jacket, both EW, but more notably, as Bill was the first to incorporate Gore-Tex fabric in his products, I have what I believe is the 16th Gore-Tex item ever made, the superb 3.5 lb Light Dimension tent. Of course, the first generation GT didn't work for long, so it did leave me soggy a few times!!
