tophopper
The resident asshole
Clam truck!
refering competitor to a job?
- Thread starter atw
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CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Late in some thoughts about this. Pretty much in Brian's camp on this one.
For every job I gave away, I get more back. I actually have had customer loyalty come back to me if I gave them a good referral. I believe that competition is a healthy thing for a business. Friendly competition pays back always.
I just did this the other day with a very old account. The people are hurting financially and they had a grey pine leaning over two structures dying. I had cautioned them over the last two years that it really needed to go and was a hazard. I bid $500 on it... they had sticker shock. No place to drop it, only option I had was to climb it and rig most by speed line over the structures. Then stage the brush as they wanted all the little stuff for firewood as well (down to about 2") and have cheaper help to cut it up for them. I gave them two referrals. I told them that maybe Andy (one of locals and friendly competition) could get his bucket truck in, but it would be tight, and maybe be able to get it down a tad cheaper and sooner due to my full schedule.
They called both, Andy showed up and said he could get his truck in with some minor relandscaping. Personally, if I had a bucket, I would not take it down this driveway.. brutal. Andy told them $600.00 if he climbed it, but if he could just make it all hit the ground behind the two sheds, he would do it for $350.00. HO cleanup. Better him than me. he spent 4.5 hours on it no chipping. Him, his wife (who flew the bucket) and one groundsman. Too cheap IMO. But he needs the money, the HO spends money easier in smaller bites, and the HO's help that shows up each week will make some money as well. I bet you I was the cheaper bid overall as the cleanup on this mess is gonna cost them. But hey... They kept food on their table, put food on Andy and Paula's table and their helper as well. I am booked well into January and about sold 50% into spring... ICGAS
I also get a bucket truck to use for a day as well 
For every job I gave away, I get more back. I actually have had customer loyalty come back to me if I gave them a good referral. I believe that competition is a healthy thing for a business. Friendly competition pays back always.
I just did this the other day with a very old account. The people are hurting financially and they had a grey pine leaning over two structures dying. I had cautioned them over the last two years that it really needed to go and was a hazard. I bid $500 on it... they had sticker shock. No place to drop it, only option I had was to climb it and rig most by speed line over the structures. Then stage the brush as they wanted all the little stuff for firewood as well (down to about 2") and have cheaper help to cut it up for them. I gave them two referrals. I told them that maybe Andy (one of locals and friendly competition) could get his bucket truck in, but it would be tight, and maybe be able to get it down a tad cheaper and sooner due to my full schedule.
They called both, Andy showed up and said he could get his truck in with some minor relandscaping. Personally, if I had a bucket, I would not take it down this driveway.. brutal. Andy told them $600.00 if he climbed it, but if he could just make it all hit the ground behind the two sheds, he would do it for $350.00. HO cleanup. Better him than me. he spent 4.5 hours on it no chipping. Him, his wife (who flew the bucket) and one groundsman. Too cheap IMO. But he needs the money, the HO spends money easier in smaller bites, and the HO's help that shows up each week will make some money as well. I bet you I was the cheaper bid overall as the cleanup on this mess is gonna cost them. But hey... They kept food on their table, put food on Andy and Paula's table and their helper as well. I am booked well into January and about sold 50% into spring... ICGAS
I also get a bucket truck to use for a day as well 
Good story, CV.
I gotta ask, being booked 4 months out, how do you do it?? People here are never happy about waiting 4 wks + here, but 4 months? Yikes. Then when you get there, it is often: oh somebody was working next door and they did it..oh my BIL did half of it...oh we built a swing set under the tree to be removed...oh we had an emergency so we are putting it off till next year...oh we had the yard fenced in since you were here...oh we cut the tree down and "stacked" the brush for you, to save money...
I gotta ask, being booked 4 months out, how do you do it?? People here are never happy about waiting 4 wks + here, but 4 months? Yikes. Then when you get there, it is often: oh somebody was working next door and they did it..oh my BIL did half of it...oh we built a swing set under the tree to be removed...oh we had an emergency so we are putting it off till next year...oh we had the yard fenced in since you were here...oh we cut the tree down and "stacked" the brush for you, to save money...
tophopper
The resident asshole
I dont know trees in Cali.......but here in MN if you dont have a 2 or 3 month backlog by this time of year you wont make it through winter. 4 months is standard, we are currently booking into February. All of which is dormant season pruning. Oaks and Elms are only pruned here during dormancy so people line up and are willing to wait until you get can get there, that is, if you market yourself right. You may lose the occasional job, but 90% of the people wait because if they miss the boat (dormancy) they need to wait until next winter.
Plus alot of the smaller companies shift gears toward snow removal, and arent willing to brave the elements in the winter to prune when its appropriate. So for the educated clients who know winter is the time, there are few reputable companies that will oblige. We have a staff of 30 people, 40 in the winter and they all get their 40 year round, despite the fact that the phones stop ringing after Thanksgiving.
It all in how you market yourself.
Plus alot of the smaller companies shift gears toward snow removal, and arent willing to brave the elements in the winter to prune when its appropriate. So for the educated clients who know winter is the time, there are few reputable companies that will oblige. We have a staff of 30 people, 40 in the winter and they all get their 40 year round, despite the fact that the phones stop ringing after Thanksgiving.
It all in how you market yourself.
atw
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
$1000 chipping job is better than nothing I suppose. Its not fun, but it gives the guys more work and more money in their pockets as well. No complaints. Sure, a guy could haul it with a grapple truck or something, but I don't have that luxury. So we did the job with what is available to us.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I have conditioned my clients to accept a three month frame to call for work. I also keep some days ope each month for emergency/urgent calls. I keep a wait list I can use for moving people into canceled or resceduled spots. I always say to the client, "I have you you down for this day, but I will move you up sooner if something does open up sooner". I also have monthly clients I can shuffle some
It really is how you sell yourself and condition your clients. When I open my schedule book at a consult or estimate, you should see the urgency on their face when they see day after day booked.
Sell yourself as always in demand... If you are always in demand, people assume there is good reason. They will want you no matter if everyone else does. Makes us a desired commodity. Smart money looks for who is going to be in demand to do the work, not who will just come do it sooner cheaply.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
My customers would struggle with waiting 3 months. Not all. But a lot would drift off on me. My faithfuls would wait a year. But my average joes would get annoyed.
vl2007
Treehouser
I agree with Skwerl on this one. I have on many occations recommended a company that is better positioned to do the job. No shame in knowing your limits.
Good going, taw, get er done.
Top, that is impressive to me. You actually have more people in the winter than summer! Is winter pruning important due to oak wilt? We don't have that here.
Btw, re getting 40 year round, what do they do when it is down pouring or blizzarding?
Top, that is impressive to me. You actually have more people in the winter than summer! Is winter pruning important due to oak wilt? We don't have that here.
Btw, re getting 40 year round, what do they do when it is down pouring or blizzarding?
CV, those are wise words, I'm going to try to adopt a lot of that.
So I have a question then. Say you are telling somebody it'll be 3 months. Then you give them an exact date? Say they are one of the ones who doesn't get moved up, how can you be there on that day, what with all the variables of weather, breakdowns, jobs that take longer than expected (hopefully cuz they added so much work onto the bill). Or maybe you want to move them up by 2 months cuz you are doing another job just up the street, so to save travel etc. I'm just saying that if you give them an exact day, doesn't that mean alot of extra phone calls when the exact day doesn't work out?
So I have a question then. Say you are telling somebody it'll be 3 months. Then you give them an exact date? Say they are one of the ones who doesn't get moved up, how can you be there on that day, what with all the variables of weather, breakdowns, jobs that take longer than expected (hopefully cuz they added so much work onto the bill). Or maybe you want to move them up by 2 months cuz you are doing another job just up the street, so to save travel etc. I'm just saying that if you give them an exact day, doesn't that mean alot of extra phone calls when the exact day doesn't work out?
tophopper
The resident asshole
We have more in the winter because we get an influx of personnel from other divisions which are more seasonal.
Weather is about the only factor in which a full 40 may not be obtained, not a lack of work.
Yes, we prune Oaks during dormancy because of Oak Wilt. We generally start pruning in November and prune through the end of March.
Weather is about the only factor in which a full 40 may not be obtained, not a lack of work.
Yes, we prune Oaks during dormancy because of Oak Wilt. We generally start pruning in November and prune through the end of March.
FJR
Treehouser
That is awesome John. In the last few years the winter workload has improved for us dramatically, mostly all due to Oak/Elm/Crabapple pruning. I have yet to have a client say no to waiting and scheduling in the winter. People look at me like I am crazy when I tell them we work year round.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Remember, I live in CA... We have more good days than bad weather. If I was in a different climate and had months I could not even do the work, I would schedule differently. Also, leaving 2 days off and making sure I have the ability to use them instead if it rains one or two that week... I just switch my days off. NP. I also leave one day per week open for fill ins. Those last minute calls and moving folks up. I also have a large percentage of clients that don't even live here full time. Having an established relationship with them, I can shuffle them about a bit. I don't mind making the few calls I have to anyway. Most folks can't get anyone to even call them back most the time. By me calling and working my schedule out, it shows my clients I am a responsible person and run a tight ship. Someone they would rather hire than most of the local competition.
They way I have structured things here work well for me. No, I can't handle every call that comes in... But I handle at least 90 percent. Often more. What works well for me, may not for a different work environment/local. Some of the philosophy will.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Brian could have done it in two sentences 
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Oh, and that client that took the cheaper bid on that grey pine. I had an update today. They calculated he clean up at over 250.00 I guess maybe I was the cheap bid after all... The husband won't admit to it, but his wife regrets their decision. I bet someone has to hear about it pretty regular now 
The husband HO was telling Rob's son Wyatt, "I don't know why he just made a mess like that", Wife HO... "Because that is what he said he would do for us for the $350.00 job.... Had we just hired Goodman & Cole, the brush would be ready to burn or make kindling and the wood ready to move to the splitter". It's nice to get feedback
This is why I always tell myself, if they don't like the price, I probably don't want the work or client anyway.
I guess maybe I was the cheap bid after all... The husband won't admit to it, but his wife regrets their decision. I bet someone has to hear about it pretty regular now The husband HO was telling Rob's son Wyatt, "I don't know why he just made a mess like that", Wife HO... "Because that is what he said he would do for us for the $350.00 job.... Had we just hired Goodman & Cole, the brush would be ready to burn or make kindling and the wood ready to move to the splitter". It's nice to get feedback
This is why I always tell myself, if they don't like the price, I probably don't want the work or client anyway.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
It's always better when people get the feeling that they will regret their decision, before they have to regret their decision.
More good stuff.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I find that sometimes it takes a repeat offender before you completely know that you don't want to work for them. That seems especially true with the unintentional offenders, their lack of intelligence can be contagious.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
Very true Jay. One of my most faithful customers hires us several times a year to come and chip brush piles. Low dollar work. But added up over time he has spent a lot of money. Anyways the guy is a business attorney and the nicest guy you could work for. We always schedule a date and he always writes the check to cash, by his own choosing. I cant tell you how many times his bank teller has looked at me and said the money isnt there just yet. I always get paid but never on time. I always have to make the awkward call gripe at him. Yet ive allowed it many times. Its like im a softy for this customer.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
It is possible for a person to have an arrangement with their bank to honor the checks that they have written, even if there is no money to cover it in their account. Usually you need to ask for the bank manager and he will clear it. I'm not sure how it works and how difficult it is to get that status, but I once had a customer like that. The first time he wrote me a check they wouldn't honor it, so I called him and he told me to go to his bank and ask for the manager henceforth. It worked every time. Perhaps it is something that could be arranged by him if his intentions are good?
Tree Reb
TreeHouser
If his intentions were good he wouldn't write dud checks.
People like that will get you one day.
People like that will get you one day.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
In my case I have to disagree. I was doing finish carpentry for him on his large residence that was being remodeled, my first job after returning to the states. "Just submit your wages", he never once asked to see a list of hours. After getting the pay arrangement clarified, there was never any problem whatsoever. That was the way he operated. Good intentions like I said, but sometimes a bit loose. He and his wife were the greatest of folks. One day after finishing up at his place, I commented to his wife that I was beat, but still had to go shopping because there was nothing in my house. She told me that I didn't have to go shopping, and then wouldn't take no after telling me that what she had just purchased at the market herself for her household, was mine. She even helped carry the three large bags to my truck. I got home and found steaks and wine and cheese, all kinds of good things, even feminine napkins. Never forget that. Their generosity overflowed, and they were very honest. Walt was in the world of finances, but didn't dig it. I subsequently became close friends with them. I was a regular at their Thanksgiving dinners, and his checks to me would bounce if I didn't know the routine. I won't deny that they were exceptions to the rule, and there could be a few more out there.
Never forget that. Their generosity overflowed, and they were very honest. Walt was in the world of finances, but didn't dig it. I subsequently became close friends with them. I was a regular at their Thanksgiving dinners, and his checks to me would bounce if I didn't know the routine. I won't deny that they were exceptions to the rule, and there could be a few more out there.
