Pruning big oak for balance?

[davidwyby]

This guy used to have a huger oak to the left of it so it went right seeking sun. We are concerned it might uproot. Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[flushcut]

I think “balance pruning” is impossible but getting some weight and leverage out of it is possible. Have you considered a prop/support of some kind? Is this a high value tree?

 

[lxskllr]

I like the prop idea. That tree's interesting the way it is. I'd try to keep it going as-is.

 

[Mellow]

If it's always been leaning like that, then the tree has already compensated with reaction wood. Leave it alone. It will be fine. Don't turn it into a hedge.

 

[davidwyby]

If it's always been leaning like that, then the tree has already compensated with reaction wood. Leave it alone. It will be fine. Don't turn it into a hedge.

...until it rains, the ground is soft, and the wind blows?

 

[SeanKroll]

Where was the other tree?

Was the stump area dug out?

Is the tree subject to new wind loading? New torsion?

Same gravity.


FWIW, the BCMA under Mellow's name is for ISA's Board Certified Master Arborist, their highest credential.




Humans often want to intervene.


An "overload" prop could be better than a full-time supporting prop, meaning that it resides just below the trunk, without interfering with natural movement, positioned between the middle and the end of the stout part of the trunk.

Once you support the tree, it stops strengthening against the natural strain of gravity and wind.




I just installed a supporting prop earlier in the week on an older apple tree that was overgrown by other things, causing similar phototropic growth.

I have a propped apple tree that fell over 8-ish years ago, after I transplanted it over 12-15 years ago, from a customer's house where it was planted a foot too deeply.
This happens with heavy seasonal fruit loads, sometimes.

Propping and
Trellissing fruit trees (orchard pruning, training, and supporting goes very much against tree genetic programming) allows less anchoring root growth and supporting trunk growth, allowing resources to be put into more fruit production. Very different situation.

 

[Mellow]

Thank you @SeanKroll. I gave the quick and dirty answer. Yours is better.

 

[davidwyby]

I left a question mark at the end cuz I know y'all know better.

The other tree was to the left/west. It was huge and shaded/sheltered this one. The tree in question is weighted to the east, prevailing winds are from the west. Desert mountains that occasionally get soaked.

I like the passive/backup support idea. Plenty of dead and down to make it from.

 

[Mellow]

The "overload" prop is an interesting idea. Maybe something with a hydraulic cylinder to minimize shock loads.

 

[SeanKroll]

A HD cushion on a cradle, if you know someone to fabricate it.

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Something like this in the middle of the prop, for adjustability of cradle height.

Concrete base with rebar and embeded bolts (heads in concrete), unless you know a better bet. Maybe diagonal braces.

$.0.02

 

[flushcut]

An idea came to me. It is an A frame brace made of C channel with a bigger section of square tube and in this tube is a heavy spring and a saddle that cradles the tree. It looks like a Y upside down and acts like a pogo stick. But it’s passive in support like the overload bump stops on your truck.
If this makes sense to anybody, it looks good in my head.

 

[SeanKroll]

Cradles partially-girdle trees.

 

[Mick!]

You’d need a look from underneath to see if there are major long laterals.

Eventually the rear of the tree will fill out now it’s getting light, that’ll balance the weight a bit.

To finish, if the client is very keen on retention then sure, lop off some weight off the ends of some branches to give the rear a chance to flush out and provide some counterweight.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Reduce the weight. Lace it out and give spacing for limbs. Gradual limb reduction. In stages over time. This will lessen the wind sail and levering issues. The air flow dynamics changed with the loss of the other tree. Weight of rain fall will also infuence the weight now especially wind driven. Tree needs to find its own balance point and strengthen itself inits new dynamic. All you can do is aid in the process with the hopes to acheive the desired outcome. Cutting too much will not acheive a long term desired out come. Too much new growth will not help the process. Just my .02

 

[flushcut]

Cradles partially-girdle trees.

True but it’s not touching the tree unless it’s overloaded. The tree that is.

 

[SeanKroll]

True but it’s not touching the tree unless it’s overloaded. The tree that is.

Agreed, I would suggest a protective rubber, or other material, pad. Hard to know with how much force it may bang into the cradle in the wind.

If/ When it gets neglected over time, it may contact it. Design for neglect.

 

[davidwyby]

You’d need a look from underneath to see if there are major long laterals.

Eventually the rear of the tree will fill out now it’s getting light, that’ll balance the weight a bit.

To finish, if the client is very keen on retention then sure, lop off some weight off the ends of some branches to give the rear a chance to flush out and provide some counterweight.

There are several, some redundant, one quite low. I figured a combination of removing ones too close to one another, the low one, and shortening the rest. Would be nice to keep some shade but let the grass get some sun under the tree.


Dunno if I mentioned it but there are a bunch of dead oaks on the mountain. We heard one crash down and saw the remaining live trees around waving after. Weird, you’d think they’d fall in a windstorm. I know eucs will randomly drop big limbs out of the clear blue sky though.

 

[davidwyby]

Hmmm…maybe cut the low one off but leave a stub a couple feet long to put the brace under. This way the girdling won’t matter…it would just be a backup support until the tree balances, and would be completely removed later.

 

[SeanKroll]

I would not stub it for a prop.




Can you draw the branch structure?

@Tree09 can help, or at least lend you his crayons. 😀

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I would only raise the crown to where I don't get eye bit or bump my head. Low laterals are important to trees. Especially in keeping strong trunk wood. Feeds the tree where it needs it. So to speak. I have often left ones right on the ground because not only do they feed the tree, store carbs for winter, they are interesting sometimes. If the tree is a ways out from a structure, it is no threat of fire or laddering it. More grass under the tree is not necessarily a good thing. Less grass means less competition and less ladder fuel for fire. Also, Shaded root Crown and Root Zones are important in our climate. You can sun scald the crown quite easily. Shade also means slower evaporation in the RZ as well. Again, important in our climate.
Again, Just my .02. There are smarter fellows than me in here about tree health. I just go with local observation.

 

[davidwyby]

I would not stub it for a prop.




Can you draw the branch structure?

@Tree09 can help, or at least lend you his crayons. 😀

IIRC, the trunk forks pretty low and each fork has 2-3 big leaders going horizontal to the right.

 

[SeanKroll]

Multiple overload systems.


Cutting off a leader so a potential partially-girdling scenario can't happen is like cutting off a growing kid's toe so they don't get ingrown toenails from too small of shoes. (sorta).

 

[SeanKroll]

Would you draw a picture, including what you guys is happening below ground?

What are the soil type, rain and wind patterns?


How long has the other tree been gone? What has this tree survived in the meantime?