Need help selecting the right rope

T

tpcollins

TreeHouser
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
28
I tried asking this on a rock climbing forum and evidently if you're not a card carrying rock climber, they're a bit nasty towards non-climbers and hunters!

I want to switch from a Tree Spider safety harness with a rear attached tether to a conventional rock climbing harness (Petzl Aspir) for bowhunting, and hopefully an easier self rescue. Instead of a rear tether to a strap above me around the tree, I would have a lifeline attached above me and down to the base of my climbing sticks. I would hook the lanyard from my climbing harness to a prusik loop (I found the Schwabisch knot on tho website might be better), ascend up the climbing sticks, moving the prusik along as I go. Once on stand, I would stay attached to the lifeline and adjust it for a minimal amount of fall if that occurred.

The rock climbers say I should use a dynamic rope instead of a static rope. But the static ropes appear better suited against the outdoor elements since it's going to stay in the tree for up to 3 months in the fall season. But I've read that that the arborist ropes are "semi-static". Sooo . . . if I'm in a treestand, and the most I should fall would be 2' or so, what rope do you suggest that would be:

- ok out in the elements

- have some amount of shock absorbing but not like a bungee cord

- and a prusik loop (or Schwabisch knot) would grip immediately?

Hopefully there's a color available that wouldn't stand out like a neon sign! Thanks.
 
I'm sorry, welcome :beer:

I just heard when calculating force on your body, you take your body weight multiplied by the length of fall (in feet) and add your weight back in.

So for me, I a 2 foot fall would mean 750 pounds of force my body/equipment would see.

A static line would most likely hold up to the elements better but some stretch would be nice.

How high are you climbing that you feel it's necessary to be tied in the entire time with an over head tie in point? Maybe it would be better to have two lanyards and alternate over any obstructions. And then use the New Tribe saddle to secure your position?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
The Petzl Aspire will work fine as will any minimalist climbing harness. You are not going to be climbing very high so you will be using a short rope. Any arborist rope with good knot-ability will be fine, take your pick. Get this book http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=74&item=2. It will not only show you good and simple ways to climb with a rope but also how to set your line in the tree. Do not leave your climbing line in the tree but instead a throw line that you can use to haul it up when you get there. Once you figure it out, it can be done even in the dark.

For what you are doing, I would keep it simple and tie directly to the harness with the rope, no carabiners and use a tail tied hitch system.

David
 
First, welcome to this forum. This is an awesome place with a lot of people willing to chat and provide help. I started out Rock-climbing, but have been tree-climbing for over a year now. I am not an authority, but understand both types of climbing, their similarities and differences.

Rock climbers do not generally spend a lot of time hanging on their ropes. Rather, they climb with their weight on the rocks. When they fall, their rope catches them. As a result, there is a greater possibility they may fall quite a distance before the rope catches them. Not so much for top-roping, but a good chance if you are Sport or Trad climbing. For example, you might take a pretty long whipper if your last clip-in point is 10' below you, then you would fall 20' before the rope catches you.

Generally, Arborists will NEVER get into this situation because they are always tied closely into their rope with a very short distance to fall.

This is the reason why rock climbers use Dynamic ropes and Arborists use Static ropes. SOMETHING HAS TO ABSORB THE FORCE OF THE FALL. When a rock climber falls, it is the stretch in the Dynamic rope which is designed to absorb this energy. Otherwise, your body would absorb this energy and a 20' fall would probably break your back.

In the same vein, this is exactly the same reason why Arborists use Static ropes. Since Arborists don't really fall far, but use their ropes for ascending, a stretchy rope would not be desirable because all that extra bounce climbing up the rope would impede your progress. In fact, for very long tree climbs, like up a 150' Douglas Fir, Arborists will often use a more static rope for this part of the climb, like Sterling HTP which only has a stretch of 1.70%. By comparison, a stretchy Arborist rope like New England Hi-Vee is 4%, while Sterling Kosmos rock climbing rope is 31% dynamic elongation !

Another thing to understand is Dynamic is a relative term. Static ropes usually have some amount of stretch to them. Also, Arborist climbing ropes are also Dynamic ropes. An average Arborist climbing rope just have a lot less stretch than an average rock climbing rope.

The short answer is, I would recommend that for your needs, an Arborist rope is a better choice.

Sorry for the long explanation. I hope this helps.
Michael
 
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  • #11
Hi Butch, my name is Tim. Thanks DMc, I think that book might be my best start since I have 9 months before I actually need these. I currently have (5) fixed stands with lifelines already attached. However, I'm convinced they are not nearly strong enough. They are left out for 3 months and I haven't seen any gnawing on them as of yet - I could put some plastic owl decoys in the tree to keep squirrels away. On (4) of my stands the climbing sticks are 20', the stand platform is about 17" so I can step from the sticks to the platform, (the other is 12' sticks, 9' platform).

I bought a Buckingham lanyard that's 42" and supposedly will stretch to 72" and I'm not sure yet if I'll use that AND stay attached to the lifeline at all times or just the lanyard or just the lifeline and depend on a prussic loop to save my butt. I'd prefer to keep them out for 3 months and replace them every year if necessary, I carry too much crap with me to the stand as it is.

My main concern is what's the best foul weather lifeline choice for ascending, descending, or dozing off and falling from the stand! Thanks.


Edit - I was typing and didn't see your post. Thank you for the great info as well. I like this website already!
 
Thats slounds like a chainsaw lanyard Tim, which isn't life support. Go with the tree climbers companion, the AeroHunter, and some throw line. That way you only need one climbing rope. Bandit will be a good choice.
 
Tim, because you are using climbing sticks ( aka skinny ladders ) you don't really need the ascent ability of an arborists climbing system, just a lanyard. However if you do use a climbing system it will increase your safety by giving you the ability to reach the ground safely if things get bad.

Plastic owls will not work and it is not just squirrels that you need to worry about. No way would I trust my life to a rope that was left out in the open and unsupervised for an extended period of time.

David
 
Butch you should try some static line someday. If you have a tree that you're gonna spend all day in, SRT on a static line after lunch is verry nice.

I agree with Dave about leaving lines in trees. I've got cheap throwline and twine in some of the trees around my house. Cheap insurance.
 
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  • #18
This forum is awesome and you guys are great. Isn't anyone watching the football games or are you all multi-tasking! Thanks.
 
bonner1040 said:
Thats slounds like a chainsaw lanyard Tim, which isn't life support.
Click to expand...

That's what I think too. There is no way that I can trust this to hang my life on. It's only rated to hold a small chainsaw, in purpose to break if the chainsaw become stuck in a falling log. You lost the chainsaw but you don't be draged to the ground by the load.
Do you see what can happen (and most certainly will) if YOU are the load?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Tim, you really don't need that stuff. With a nice light weight webbing harness and a short (45'?) piece of rope you can do whatever you need to, safely, even switching to a tree with no set stand. Just get the book and learn how to use them.

David
 
The lanyard he is reffering to is one typically used for fall arrest on roofs, mancage ect. Less of a work position lanyard , these lanyards just catch your fall

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
 
TP...you are getting superb advice from DMc, Reddog, AdamP and now me. Don't leave a life support line in a tree...not even overnight.

A small piece of throwline...yes. That is small, cheap diameter, nylon line that is used to pull your life line up into the tree. If a squirrel chews through that (or lightning hits when you're not there and singes the line or a crow decided to see if it will work for a nest, etc., etc.) and it is an expendable throw line that bursts when you are pulling up your life line no problem.

Leave a life line up there and if you don't die from a fall you will always wonder why you did such a stupid thing as leave a LIFE line exposed to elements, animals or people.

My first scuba instructor was the first explorer of the cave systems in N. Florida. They always tied a nylon line to a tree on the shore and fed out a spool of line as they descended and explored the underwater caves. That line led them back to safety...silting can be a problem in the caves, taking spurs and getting turned around...you needed the line to find your way out.

On one return the LIFE line they were using went slack...they managed to get back OK. A local that did not like "foreigners" (anyone not from that little county..a psycho) had cut the line where it was tied to the tree..sending them a "go home" message. They learned to tie the line to a rock about 20 feet down after that. No psychos ever dove down to cut that line. This guy was a Normandy Beach survivor...battled all the way to Germany. It would have been a shame for him to die as a result of some psycho's problems.

Maybe a PETA freak or some goofy kid might think it would be fun to partially cut your line left in the tree for whatever reason people do mean things.

End of rant. Good luck with your project.
 
As far as leaving rope exposed to the elements, I don't know about Squirrels chomping on it, but there are waterproof and UV protected marine grade ropes. 3 strand is one type. I suspect greater longevity than a proper arborist type rope when left outside.
 
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