Lag eyes or through eye bolts?

[emr]

We recently had a couple of wind storms go through our area. One had 70-80mph wind and the other had 50mph gusts. I got a call from a customer who we had installed a cable in a Norway Maple about 2 months ago. He just wanted me to check it out to make sure it was OK. He hadn't noticed any problems. So I stopped out and noticed that both eye bolts had opened up. These are the same style eye lag bolts that we have used for years. This was the first time I have ever seen one, let alone two, open up. So we decided to get drop forged eye legs from Treestuff.com. We got both 1/2" and 5/8" just so we had some options. I have been wondering about switching over to through bolts and doing away with lags altogether. I read the BMPs and there is no real clear suggestion unless there is decay in the stem being cabled.

So what do you all use? Type, size, etc.? And why?

 

[MasterBlaster]

People still cable trees?

 

[sotc]

You really should be using the right hardware, most of what you get at a hardware store is not suitable. Lags are fine depending on species, length, size and angle. No cut and dry answer generally speaking. Have you tried rigguy?

 

[Porkbrick]

we use rigguy and i love it. i recommend looking into it. jaime

 

[Bodean]

Rig guy in a oscillating motion over time wallows out the hole larger. I think.

J-lags suck anyway you look at it. In my opinion.
Seen them popped out of limbs and trunks.

The through bolts are the way to go,
if you're looking for something you can turn your back and say you tried the best.
Doesn't mean use inch thick rod on a four inch limb, be reasonable.

 

[FJR]

we use rigguy and i love it. i recommend looking into it. jaime

Same here.

 

[emr]

You really should be using the right hardware, most of what you get at a hardware store is not suitable. Lags are fine depending on species, length, size and angle. No cut and dry answer generally speaking. Have you tried rigguy?

You know, we have always used the eyes from hardware stores and we have never once had a problem. I aleays kind of wondered about them, but that was the way I was taught and it always worked. Now I will be making the change.

I have looked into the Rigguy anod similar types of tree support systems and I am not sold on them. I have heard that over the years the tree will start to bend and weaken the wire where it voes into the tree. So for nowI want to keep with the more traditional methods.

 

[flushcut]

If you are going to use hardware store eyes weld the eye shut. I use J-lags on stems in the six~eight inch range and through bolts on the bigger stuff but I want to change over to the rigguy setup because I have heard so manny good things about them.

 

[pigwot]

Haven't used J-lags in many, many years; can't risk it with limbs over homes and people.
Last few years we're running into taking down a few trees 22 to 25 years after we through-bolted and cabled them.
None of them so far have failed due to the bolting/bracing, just general decay.
Folks call back for concerns over new deadwood and at assessment we tell them either:
- we need to update the cable/bracing as the tree is much taller now, or
- you got 'x' years extra enjoyment out of your tree but it is time to take it down as it is now a hazard.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The only cabling I've ever done was with eyebolts all the way through the limb.

 

[HolmenTree]

The biggest trees [always maples] I have cabled and bolt braced, I only use galvanized 1/2" ready rod, nuts and washers. I have seen failures in J hooks so I use lots of eye nuts with 1/2" threaded female holes. I get my eye nuts from Sherrill, the 7 strand soft lay cable you can buy anywhere.

 

[sotc]

You know, we have always used the eyes from hardware stores and we have never once had a problem. I aleays kind of wondered about them, but that was the way I was taught and it always worked. Now I will be making the change.

Do you know what the rating is of the hardware store stuff? Most of it that I have seen is 400 to 600 pounds.

Over the years I have only had 1 J lag fail and had the client followed the annual inspection rule I probably wouldn't have happened. The branch did not fail FWIW. If they are placed in good wood, right sized lag for the load and in a good species they should do fine

 

[Porkbrick]

weve been using the rigguy system for about three years now. pretty soon our pruning cycle will start bringing us back to those trees. i will definitely let you guys know what i find. as for traditional hardware, our company strictly used through rod and eye nuts. very solid system, and very overkill for smaller applications. i agree that each situation calls for appropriate hardware. i think instead of j-lags i would use forged solid eye lags for smaller stuff.

 

[flushcut]

 

[emr]

I am at home right now with the boys so I dont know what the rating on the eyes is, but I thought the WWL was closer to 1500 lbs. I could be wrong. Here are a couple of pics from the tree. Both eyes should be completely closed.

 

[sotc]

Is that 1/4" ehs cable? That would be 6650 tensile strength hanging on 1500# hardware. Part of the BMP's is doing things to industry standard for our own protection from liability

 

[emr]

It is 1/4ehs cable. Again, I could be wrong but I think the eye is 1500lbs wll not tensile. Either way we will not be using them any more. There have been several times over the years that we have checked our practices against the BMPs and we have always been working within those suggestions. I admit that we may not have been using the absolute strongest eyes, but still plenty strong for the trees..... Or so we thought. Like I said before, I have been doing things this way for over ten years and I have never seen one of mine fail before. I used to work at a place that had been cabling trees this way for 15 years before I got there and they never had a failure. We usually don't cable big stuff so maybe that is why nothing has failed or we have just been lucky.

 

[MasterBlaster]

That's a lousy cabling job.

 

[emr]

Thanks for the input. I guess I kind of figured that out. Now I am trying to figure out what changes need to be made.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Closed eyebolts, straight through the limb, use two clamps at each end and winch line cable, NO three strand crap.

 

[emr]

That's not 3 strand wire, what you are seeing is the tree grip. We use EHS cable which is not splicable.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I was speaking as a general rule, not comparing anything to anything. Sorry for the disclarity.

And I forgot another General Rule = use TWO clamps on each end. Using only one is the mark of a rookie/don't GAFer.

 

[emr]

My bad.

 

[sotc]

Clamps
Preform grips

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I didn't think clamps were legit. I thought it was always spliced or preforms. Haven't used any wire cabling, except on a tiny mimosa (kid hung on a limb and peeled it partway off) where I think the hardware store stuff is enough.