Independence Day
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MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Do they still have M-80's???
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
To all the men and women that made it possible...
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Just remember, kids, while you're being inundated with all this anti-colonial brouhaha, what you're really celebrating. And that's the fact that a bunch of white, slave-owning aristocrats didn't want to pay their taxes.
And just like politicians today, the higher-up aristocrats who were demanding the taxes got their panties in a wad.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
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He sure could put on a good show!
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Nope. The British government dropped multiple taxes against the colonists, simply because the colonists didn't want to pay. They were so keen to keep the colonists happy, they'd just drop them.
Even when the British army fought off the French for them, and the colonists then refused to pay a single penny of the bill, they just accepted it. The colonists however, didn't like George III proclaiming that the natives Americans should have their own land; and the smugglers (with friends in high places) didn't like the East India company providing tea that was cheaper and better quality than their stuff.
As Howard Zinn puts it:
"Do you think the Indians cared about independence from England? No, in fact, the Indians were unhappy that we won independence from England, because England had set a line—in the Proclamation of 1763—that said you couldn’t go westward into Indian territory. They didn’t do it because they loved the Indians. They didn’t want trouble. When Britain was defeated in the Revolutionary War, that line was eliminated, and now the way was open for the colonists to move westward across the continent, which they did for the next 100 years, committing massacres and making sure that they destroyed Indian civilization."
I won't argue the issue with you, Ed, as you may be absolutely right. I contend that we may never know the whole truth of the matter, as with victory comes the right to tell the story as you want it told. The odd thing is that only a few years later, the South tried the same thing, and the North failed to see the point. War for Independence, Civil War and The Alamo.....rebels only won 2 out of 3.
rfwoodvt
TreeHouser
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of AMERICA.
WHEN, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another; and to assume, among the Powers Of The Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the Causes which impel them to the Separation.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
HE has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good.
HE has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
HE has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them and formidable to Tyranny only.
HE has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.
HE has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the people.
HE has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, Incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining, in the mean Time, exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and Convulsions within.
HE has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
HE has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
HE has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.
HE has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance.
HE has kept among us, in times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the Consent of our Legislatures.
HE has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
HE has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us:
FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:
FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
FOR depriving us in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:
FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences:
FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rule into these Colonies:
FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.
HE has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection, and waging War against us.
HE has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and destroyed the Lives of our People.
HE is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to complete the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with Circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized Nation.
HE has constrained our fellow Citizens, taken Captive on the high Seas, to bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their Friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
HE has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.
IN every Stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every Act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.
NOR have we been wanting in Attentions to our British Brethren. We have warned them, from Time to Time, of Attempts by their Legislature to extend an unwarrantable Jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. We have appealed to their native Justice and Magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the Ties of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our Connexions and Correspondence. They too have been deaf to the Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the Rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
WE, therefore, the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in GENERAL CONGRESS, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be,FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connexion between them and the State of Great-Britain, is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may of Right do. And for the Support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of DIVINE PROVIDENCE, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honour.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120704/OPINION01/207040310#ixzz1zfCTWNbm
The unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of AMERICA.
WHEN, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another; and to assume, among the Powers Of The Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the Causes which impel them to the Separation.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
HE has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good.
HE has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
HE has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them and formidable to Tyranny only.
HE has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.
HE has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the people.
HE has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, Incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining, in the mean Time, exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and Convulsions within.
HE has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
HE has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
HE has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.
HE has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance.
HE has kept among us, in times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the Consent of our Legislatures.
HE has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
HE has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us:
FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:
FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
FOR depriving us in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:
FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences:
FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rule into these Colonies:
FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.
HE has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection, and waging War against us.
HE has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and destroyed the Lives of our People.
HE is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to complete the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with Circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized Nation.
HE has constrained our fellow Citizens, taken Captive on the high Seas, to bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their Friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
HE has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.
IN every Stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every Act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.
NOR have we been wanting in Attentions to our British Brethren. We have warned them, from Time to Time, of Attempts by their Legislature to extend an unwarrantable Jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. We have appealed to their native Justice and Magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the Ties of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our Connexions and Correspondence. They too have been deaf to the Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the Rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
WE, therefore, the Representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in GENERAL CONGRESS, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be,FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connexion between them and the State of Great-Britain, is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may of Right do. And for the Support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of DIVINE PROVIDENCE, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honour.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120704/OPINION01/207040310#ixzz1zfCTWNbm
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
SkwerI
Treehouser
Sometimes you are just too offensive. Go spew your hate somewhere else.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Hey Ed... Your army was bigger than ours and now our Island is bigger than yours. Remember when the bad guys come whos f-18's you will be looking for.
Alas, I am pretty sure you owe us one or two from the WW's unless you want to sprechen zee german.
Alas, I am pretty sure you owe us one or two from the WW's unless you want to sprechen zee german.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Oh and as far as I am concerned there are only 5 colors... RED - WHITE - BLUE - DAVEY GREEN & MOSSY OAK BREAKUP CAMOUFLAGE!
The way EU is going, that was all for nothing.
The Germans are going to own us all anyway
Happy 4th of July guys. Enjoy the fireworks!
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
Sorry Brian, no hating intended, I just cant help but tease sometimes. My apologies if my pedantism came over the wrong way.
Forgotten the French then?
Continent dude, continent
Nope, Britain had beaten off the German invasion in summer and Autumn of 1940, and had reversed the tide in North Africa, beating Rommel by 1943.
So I dont think there was any chance of us sprachen ze Deutsch. This is not to take away from the extremely generous aid provided by America, and the vast influx of US troops who helped to turn the war on the western front. But lets not get carried away
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I didn't think it was hate.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
It came off rough. But he said he meant it in good fun, so let's all celebrate.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Happy 4th!!
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Ed, it comes a surprise to me that you, of all people would forget who REALLY beat the germans in WW2.
The Russians.
Not without help from their overseas friends ( isn't history funny?) the US, but without the eastern front, The war would have gone on a LOT longer.
I didn't see Ed's posts as hate eather, just making fun of the total lack of historical knowledge that most modern people have.
My apprentice asked me today if I thought the Yanks had dropped the nukes on Japan, just to see if the tecnology worked.
So I had to tell him about the massive losses of American soldiers in taking Midway and Okinawa and sundry other non tactical Pacific islands, and what the American high command must have feared would happen if they were ever to invade mainland Japan.
And of course the firebombings of tokyo, Yokohama and Osaka and several other cities that I can't remember, in which more people died than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
Finally I asked him if he thought anybody would remember Dresden if Berlin had been nuked.
What happened in Dresden, he asked.
This is not a " doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground" kid, just a 25 ( or 26 maybe?) child of our times, with what passes for a well rounded education today.
That lack of historical knowledge makes it hard to have serious discussions about stuff, which is why Ed and for that matter, myself, like to poke y'all with a historical stick now and then.
Now would be a fun time to see how many members here know " what happened in Dresden".
But then you have all read "Slaugtherhouse five", it being an American classic, so of course you'd know.
Brian, nobody here below the age of 30 knows either, so I'm not pissing on Americans, I'm pissing on people all over the world who don't know shit about what the generatins that came before them did, but think theyr grandfathers all wore baggy jeans, hanging below ( way the F below) the butt crack and the biggest aspiration they ever had was to act like they were ghetto .......( I already got in trouble for using that word, so please use your imagination to fill in the void!).
How did this happen?
Rant over, sorry.
I envy you the fireworks.
I love a good firework show.
We have ours at the new year, at 12 o'clock, since we don't have any independence or recent victories to celebrate, havin IMO been collaborators in both world wars.
But at least fireworks look better in the TOTAL dead of night at new years eve here that this time of the year
The Russians.
Not without help from their overseas friends ( isn't history funny?) the US, but without the eastern front, The war would have gone on a LOT longer.
I didn't see Ed's posts as hate eather, just making fun of the total lack of historical knowledge that most modern people have.
My apprentice asked me today if I thought the Yanks had dropped the nukes on Japan, just to see if the tecnology worked.
So I had to tell him about the massive losses of American soldiers in taking Midway and Okinawa and sundry other non tactical Pacific islands, and what the American high command must have feared would happen if they were ever to invade mainland Japan.
And of course the firebombings of tokyo, Yokohama and Osaka and several other cities that I can't remember, in which more people died than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
Finally I asked him if he thought anybody would remember Dresden if Berlin had been nuked.
What happened in Dresden, he asked.
This is not a " doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground" kid, just a 25 ( or 26 maybe?) child of our times, with what passes for a well rounded education today.
That lack of historical knowledge makes it hard to have serious discussions about stuff, which is why Ed and for that matter, myself, like to poke y'all with a historical stick now and then.
Now would be a fun time to see how many members here know " what happened in Dresden".
But then you have all read "Slaugtherhouse five", it being an American classic, so of course you'd know.
Brian, nobody here below the age of 30 knows either, so I'm not pissing on Americans, I'm pissing on people all over the world who don't know shit about what the generatins that came before them did, but think theyr grandfathers all wore baggy jeans, hanging below ( way the F below) the butt crack and the biggest aspiration they ever had was to act like they were ghetto .......( I already got in trouble for using that word, so please use your imagination to fill in the void!).
How did this happen?
Rant over, sorry.
I envy you the fireworks.
I love a good firework show.
We have ours at the new year, at 12 o'clock, since we don't have any independence or recent victories to celebrate, havin IMO been collaborators in both world wars.
But at least fireworks look better in the TOTAL dead of night at new years eve here that this time of the year
Thor's Hammer
Wolfish. Sometimes Bites.
I didn't forget Stig, I just thought I wouldn't labour the point. But since you asked...
The Russians lost 10 million military deaths, and 14 million civilians. In perspective, they lost 13% of their population defeating the Germans. I think we only faced 30% of the German army on the Western front. The Russians faced the rest.
By comparison, the US lost 400,000 troops, and virtually no civilians. The UK was about 390,000 troops, about 70,000 civilians and 1% of their population.
The Russians lost 10 million military deaths, and 14 million civilians. In perspective, they lost 13% of their population defeating the Germans. I think we only faced 30% of the German army on the Western front. The Russians faced the rest.
By comparison, the US lost 400,000 troops, and virtually no civilians. The UK was about 390,000 troops, about 70,000 civilians and 1% of their population.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Happy Independence day to all my brothers and sisters from the south!
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
The Russians probably faced the worst fighting conditions against the Germans on the eastern front, along with the ferocious fighting.
Take a step over to the Pacific, however, and with the more common hand to hand fighting, different from the tanks and other armored vehicles with the infantry more in a support role, the conditions could be extreme. Against the tenacious down to the last man not surrendering emperor crazed Japs, there was also the rotting heat and bugs and jungle diseases, sometimes meeting the little bastards face to face suddenly on a trail, the marines in particular rose to the what they had to do.
Take a step over to the Pacific, however, and with the more common hand to hand fighting, different from the tanks and other armored vehicles with the infantry more in a support role, the conditions could be extreme. Against the tenacious down to the last man not surrendering emperor crazed Japs, there was also the rotting heat and bugs and jungle diseases, sometimes meeting the little bastards face to face suddenly on a trail, the marines in particular rose to the what they had to do.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Taking the kiddos to see fireworks here in a bit. Kat had to work tonight.
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