How many of you are running ported saws

[MCW]

What do you want it to do ,be a good worker or a cookie cutter ?

Are you saying that a properly ported saw can't be a good worker?

 

[Cut4fun]

What do you want it to do ,be a good worker or a cookie cutter ?

Are you saying that a properly ported saw can't be a good worker?

I know what Al's talking about. There are 2 ends of a yardstick. Very dependable cut all day woods ported saw on the 1" end that leaves a lot on the table and at the other end you have the built to edge of mercy cookie cutter woods ported saw on the 36" end. Might get a little hot on extended cutting.

Hope that helps you out understanding.

 

[Al Smith]

No I'm saying a cookie cutter makes a pizz poor worker .To make a cookie cutter in order to get the RPM's real high you take the exhaust port real high which kills the torque .

R's don't do you much good unless you have the grunt to go along with it .The one thing noone wants is a wimpy saw you have to baby every time you make a cut .

I'm not gong to mention any names but it seems a few "builders " got on that kick of cookie cutter GTG saws everyone seemed to want but failed as far as good powerfull working saws .As a result they left a very bad impression on those who assumed they were going to get back a saw they could work with .I think since that fad has been realized and rectified most are not following that trend .

To the question ,no .A properly reworked saw is a joy to own and operate .

 

[MCW]

I know what Al's talking about. There are 2 ends of a yardstick. Very dependable cut all day woods ported saw on the 1" end that leaves a lot on the table and at the other end you have the built to edge of mercy cookie cutter woods ported saw on the 36" end. Might get a little hot on extended cutting.

Hope that helps you out understanding.

Gotcha mate. There are definately a few "wood's ported" saws that are far from that. I had a Makita 6401 with Mahle 79cc top end that had been ported but also had a pop up. It was pushing 200psi. The builder in question (who I'm sure you know) assured me that it would not overheat during hard use. He was right but only just - extremely strong saw (absolutely flogged my stock 390XP and MS660 - even in larger wood with a 32" bar buried). I found I had to richen it up a tad to stop it "running on" a bit after hard, sustained cuts. I sold the saw with a stock BB kit and kept the modified top end but that was my go to saw for a while. I just had to sell it as Makita Blue made me feel less manly

No I'm saying a cookie cutter makes a pizz poor worker .To make a cookie cutter in order to get the RPM's real high you take the exhaust port real high which kills the torque .

R's don't do you much good unless you have the grunt to go along with it .The one thing noone wants is a wimpy saw you have to baby every time you make a cut .

I'm not gong to mention any names but it seems a few "builders " got on that kick of cookie cutter GTG saws everyone seemed to want but failed as far as good powerfull working saws .As a result they left a very bad impression on those who assumed they were going to get back a saw they could work with .I think since that fad has been realized and rectified most are not following that trend .

To the question ,no .A properly reworked saw is a joy to own and operate .

No worries Al and thanks for clarifying that with me - appreciated.
I thought you may have been one of those guys that have never been on the working end of a properly ported and modified work saw I know what you mean as far as cookie cutters but realise you are probably referring more to those guys who mod saws and do nothing except run stop watches over them with a lump in their pants! I've recorded a heap of videos of cookie cutting myself (to compare chain and saw speeds) but am by no means a cookie cutter. I just enjoy chainsaws! Some guys get that anal about cutting times on a 4" cant that I sometimes just laugh.

eg: "Wow, you mean your modified 441 beats your stock 3120 in a 4" piece of Pine? Man, that saw is awesome!!!"

I recently finished a commercial tree felling job involving just under 7,800 Casuarina trees ranging from 8" to probably 44-46". The heights were also variable but a few of these trees would have been around 110-120' tall.
On this particular job I was recording everything. Fuel usage, hours worked, average trees felled per hour, average trees felled per day (al I had to do was drop them) etc etc.
When I purchased a new modified 7900 it increased my efficiency to the order of 20-25% over my stock 7900. In smaller trees it wasn't as pronounced, but when I had runs of trees up to 200 in a row with nothing under 24" and averaging around 28-30" the modified saw absolutely sprinted away from my stocker with a 32" bar. This job was only about precision and speed though, the wood was useless. On a few trees I realised that the speed can sometimes overtake the precision and cause issues

Sorry to waffle on a bit mate but just explaining my thoughts with a few numbers to back it up.

 

[Jed]

Thanks Mr. Smith:

Sorry about not answerin'....Saturday work. We residential types chunk down lots of Firs, Hemlocks and Black Cottonwoods here in the Puget Sound area: not too much rope work most of the time--just a ton of firewood chunks off the spar if you don't got space for logs. I got a max-flow for the 440 a few years back, and it made such a big difference that I felt like it would be fun to put some of my own port work into it. (I'll confess that a rather juvenile desire to be faster that the boys probably plays into it rather heavily as well!) Trouble is--I don't know what the heck I'm doin'. Ignorance is keepin' a brother down--big time.

Do any of you more sophisticated Red Necks with a web cam feel like educating a poor inbred on how to do a descent woods port before I pound a Phillips screwdriver through my muffler with a hammer?

Any advice would be most welcome.

 

[SkwerI]

Jed, Kevin just started a thread this morning with several youtube videos on how to port a chainsaw engine.

 

[Jed]

Yesss!!!!!!! Thanks Skwerl!!! You techies rock!

 

[MasterBlaster]

techies?

 

[Al Smith]

I didn't watch the vid but I'm sure it gives the basics .Go to Macdizzey and take a peek .

Myself or anyone else can't pull numbers out of the blue and expect that anybody would have success based soley on that .You have to account for cylinder size,expected RPM range etc .plus the fact no two people on the face of the earth would do the ports up exactly like somebody else .

Way too many people have taken things posted on the net too seriously and with eager anticipation have charged forward only to become disappinted with the outcome .

The only sound advice I can give is walk before you run .Do a little ,test it out .You can polish up the ports maybe widen them some and not really change the porting charicteristics .If you just pull the base gasket and either use a thinner gasket or sealant and it doesn't work once you stick the gasket back in you're right back to where you started . Find a cheapie or a freebie before you start fiddling with an 800 dollar 460 or something .

 

[HolmenTree]

Do any of you more sophisticated Red Necks with a web cam feel like educating a poor inbred on how to do a descent woods port before I pound a Phillips screwdriver through my muffler with a hammer?

Any advice would be most welcome.

Relax inbred, take the derails like they were a coffee break during shop class. Take your time and fit in with the flow here.
See your already on track your talking about a muffler mod with a phillips screwdriver, we'll just help you fine tune that a little.

Willard

 

[Jed]

Thanks tons Al and Willard: Yeah, I should relax a little bit....the youtube videos have me convinced I'm in just a tad over my head anyways. Maybe I'll have a go all the same. The company's got lots of saws if I bust mine!

 

[sotc]

Thanks Mr. Smith:

Mr. Smith?! I thought that was old uncle Al!!

As to those videos, he hogged that out quite a bit, you can do a little lesser mod no doubt!

 

[bill22]

My 3 saws are stock,I'm just not that mechanically inclined to do fine tuning.let alone porting.

 

[Jed]

Yeah Willie... He said somthing about "never ever cut timber etc.--just for racing etc." I'm thinking that even if I had the ability to do that, she might end up runnin' a little hot.

 

[sotc]

I dont need or want a race saw, just a work horse

 

[Jed]

Yeah: Do I remember your having told me something about simply doing it with a round file and then smoothing it out with something?

 

[sotc]

I may have finish shaped the intake and exhaust with a file before polishing but you will wipe a file out fast on the cylinder wall if you tried to much there

 

[Al Smith]

If you're going to get serious about this stuff first read,study ,read study .Then you're going to need more than just a file and some sandpaper .

The basics are a degree wheel,a small die grinder like a Dremel .You'll need an assortment of small cutters,polishing fobs and compound. Craytex which is a rubberized abrasive works well .You could get started for a couple hundred bucks .

If you have a bunch of money a right angle grinder like a Dunmoor would set you back about 400 .Nice machines but for a clutze like me they remove metal too fast and I'd have it screwed up before I knew it which is one reason I don't own one .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Whatever you do, chamfer the port edges inside the cylinder.

 

[Al Smith]

I have to laugh at the mention of a chainsaw file port job .Old Gyp actually did that and the 044 didn't run too bad .During the saws evolution though he hung it two or three times .Knocked the thing apart,sanded down the piston and stuck it back together .

I don't recommend that method though but it was amusing .

 

[MCW]

Whatever you do, chamfer the port edges inside the cylinder.

Yep. Good idea. Photo is of a ported 372XP BB kit. Still not sure if this was a chamfer issue (may have been a lack of radius on the top of the exhaust port?) but regardless had the same result

 

[Cut4fun]

I have to laugh at the mention of a chainsaw file port job .Old Gyp actually did that and the 044 didn't run too bad .During the saws evolution though he hung it two or three times .Knocked the thing apart,sanded down the piston and stuck it back together .

I ran that horse rasp ported 044 at a gtg. It ran pretty dang good with a little piston score and all. He just wanted to show if one really wanted a little extra ump, it didnt take a rocket scientist to port a saw for better performance.

I think I still have pics saved somewhere on CD and with times of saw in the 0-80 class.

 

[Al Smith]

Yep. Good idea. Photo is of a ported 372XP BB kit. Still not sure if this was a chamfer issue (may have been a lack of radius on the top of the exhaust port?) but regardless had the same result

Well it definately snagged something by the looks of things .Also that ex port could have stood a little rework ,kinda rough .

No big deal but just to point out it doesn't take much obstruction to put a damper in things .

That one wasn't so bad though because I've worked on them where the piston didn't have one piece larger than a quarter of a dollar .Surprisingly more times than not the cylinder was salvagable in spite of a grenaded piston .

 

[Cut4fun]

Here is a comparison of Dolmar 166 exhaust ports on a 166 ported woods saw and a 166 Marcel Vincent ported race saw exhaust.

Also the size of the intake on the MVP 166 could swallow a golf ball.

 

[Al Smith]

The 166 hotty had the largest intake and carb of any saw I've ever seen .It would have seemed it came off a small motorcycle rather than a saw engine .