buying the Zigzag ! ...

[rangerdanger]

My understanding comes from talking and listening to guys at the Petzl booth at the past TCIA. The ZigZag can be used on single line, as an ascender. It will hold your weight. As long as its backed up, you may use it on ascent, but have to switch to doubled rope once you reach your tip. In the event of an emergency, its possible to descend on the ZigZag on SRT with the aid of some sort of friction, like a figure 8 or munter below the device. Trying to descend without the aid of some sort of friction device is not approved.

Again, this is just from talking to and listening to various reps and climbers at the Petzl booth.

Another problem is the ZigZag creates two edges on a rope from the sharp bend radius. Hard to describe, but various big name rope mfg's were looking at it and seemed somewhat worried about the possible long term effects of this device on the rope, especially after what it was doing to a rope from ppl just hanging on it and trying it out on the show floor.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

In the event of an emergency, its possible to descend on the ZigZag on SRT with the aid of some sort of friction, like a figure 8 or munter below the device. Trying to descend without the aid of some sort of friction device is not approved.

I'm sure its not the manufacturer recommended technique, but a sorta loose footlock would suck up some weight, using some friction from your feet to add to the overall package, in the event of an emergency, provided you didn't injure your leg severely. Quick to install.

 

[Adam_P]

I think it's great but the same as a Spiderjack in terms of what it offers.

I agree that the ZZ has a lot in common with the SJ.

There are some differences worth noting, though.

From talking to people who have climbed on both the ZZ is much more beginner friendly. It's more forgiving than an SJ when managing friction. The SJ has you using your thumb to help vary friction with a wooden block. If you don't use the block and lever together you go through cams VERY quickly. Also, if you bump the lever on an SJ accidently going across your body, you go for a little ride. Not much fun. The ZZ is just like your hitch.

In theory it should have a leg up on the SJ in terms of wear as well. The friction is distributed over several stainless points rather than a single alumium cam. Of course, you can replace the cam on an SJ so that may level the field a bit.

I don't use my SJ when working because it's not midline attachable and can be awkward to manage with my off hand when I'm leaning way out.

Another interesting thing is that the SJ is only crazy expensive in North America because of Sherrill. Across the pond it's actually cheaper than the ZZ. Gotta love Sherrill...

 

[Burnham]

Go with the HH instead, imltho. No question.

 

[bonner1040]

Hey buddy! Good to read ya.

I too think the HH is better money spent (and less). Its more versatile and infinitely more durable. I really cant see my HH wearing out at all.

 

[Burnham]

Thanks, Nick. Been away on a pleasurable road/camping trip for a couple of weeks...nice to read some TH again, lot's to catch up on.

 

[DMc]

Glad you are back, Burnham! I agree Nick, and it is the only mistake Paul made in the HH design. It is built so strong it will last a long, long time.

Dave

 

[Burnham]

I appreciate that, Dave. Best to S and the pair of demon dogs .

 

[Oldmilltreecare]

I've just watched the ZIgZag video again and for DdRT I don't think there is a better system available, for a multitude of reasons. Just my opinion.
However, I climb single line so I'll be sticking with my beloved HH.

 

[Altissimus]

...mind is changing ...

 

[kevin bingham]

I think th zz looks like a great tool sinle or double line. It seems to resolve a lot of the issues of the unicender. The unicender. The unicender was designed for double line and only sort of works on single line. The zz looks like its more compact, has stainless steel wear points, has a built in tender and swivel. Looks great to me.

 

[bonner1040]

I dont know, I think a HH-or-RW/ Hitch combo is going to be better for SRT.

Is there anyone in the Vermont area with a HH or a RW that can let Altissimus give it a try?

The other option is one of Surveyors OAR devices...

 

[kevin bingham]

A zz with rw works pretty sweet from what people are reporting.

 

[JoshINtrees]

I am still trying to decide if I do enough on rope to make it worthwhile.

 

[Adam_P]

...mind is changing ...

If you get it and hate it I'd possibly buy it off of you.

Also, if you don't have a HH do you want to give mine a run for a bit to see if you like it?

 

[bonner1040]

A zz with rw works pretty sweet from what people are reporting.

I have been reading about that, I wont bash it but thats just too much for me I think. I have never used a RW but with the following it has and all the content, written and video, I have seen its usefullness and the function is obvious. I have used the HH and can not fathom that a ZZ/RW combo could be so much better than either the function of my HH setup or many users RW setups, especially at the price point. Nor can I believe that the ZZ with or without a RW will approach the durability of the HH or standard RW setups.

HH w/ cord and Carabiner $160

RW with cord/tether/pulley and carabiner around the same $150-170

ZZ $275

ZZ w/ RW tether and carabiner around $400-420

I think the ZZ looks like a nice tool, dont get me wrong. I would totally rock it on some DRT, but since I mostly climb SRT now i think it is obvious that there are better, more tunable, durable and less expensive setups. Not to mention the whole midline attachable thing.

 

[DMc]

... The unicender was designed for double line and only sort of works on single line...

I don't know where you got that from, but I can guarantee that the Uni does a hell of a lot more than " sort of works on single line ". In use it is actually just the opposite, in that as a replacement for a hitch in a DdRT system, it functions but is definitely not better. Conversely, if all that is needed is a fast, safe and easy way to get on, and navigate both up and down a single line, as old as it is, nothing will beat the Uni. Guaranteed.

The ZZ is aimed directly at competing with the very successful ART products. I think in this it will do very well but in case you haven't noticed things are changing. Any manufacture that is not seriously pursuing the single line trend in tree work, will be missing a very large market.

Dave

 

[bonner1040]

I don't know where you got that from, but I can guarantee that the Uni does a hell of a lot more than " sort of works on single line ". In use it is actually just the opposite, in that as a replacement for a hitch in a DdRT system, it functions but is definitely not better. Conversely, if all that is needed is a fast, safe and easy way to get on, and navigate both up and down a single line, as old as it is, nothing will beat the Uni. Guaranteed.

The ZZ is aimed directly at competing with the very successful ART products. I think in this it will do very well but in case you haven't noticed things are changing. Any manufacture that is not seriously pursuing the single line trend in tree work, will be missing a very large market.

Dave

+1

 

[Altissimus]

Comes down to utility, I learned old school Double... tougher ascents, better limbwalk... went to Single, easier ascents, limbwalk with the Grigri is okay but I miss one handing the knot for adjustments. Sounds like the HH will do this...

 

[bonner1040]

There are tons of videos showing limbwalking with the Wrench, and if you look at my video of the limbwalking with the HitchHiker you can see that it is far superior to a GriGri (which I have tried).

Skip ahead to around 3:00 for the in tree stuff if you havent seen it already

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qL0gbzHnRKk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Husabud]

I'll send you my wrench if you want to try it out. I have been using the HH solely.

 

[kevin bingham]

Yeah, price absolutely. I guess I'm talking as if that were not part of the equation. My understanding on the uni was that it was designed for double line and found out about the wrap after he had designed it and dicovered it worked srt . maybe im wrong.The taking a wrap kills the uni for me as well as thr lack of a full tender. There are reports of the uni going well with a wrench. I like the uni, but it has some shortcomings which are mainly due to the sacrifices needed to be midline artacheable where it is about as midline artacheable as possible. I agree 100 percent about the wonderful ness of hitches. I don't believe I have any need for a zigzag but I don't think it's a step backward. A little bit of rigging and I think it would work with the HH just fine as well. It's a mechanical hitch that's all and there is a place for that.

 

[Adam_P]

Did you get the ZZ yet?

 

[kevin bingham]

No, I have something better.

 

[PCTREE]

Now if that ain't a tease then ive never seen one. And remember my wife is a pole dancer....