alternatives in land use

[FireFighterZero]

Crappy picture of an organic farm blowing away during today's wind event.

 

[cory]

Those 'organic folks', one would presume they are open minded about change and improvement, I wonder what they generally think of a no-till approach

 

[squisher]

Organic and no till go hand in hand from what I've been learning.

 

[FireFighterZero]

No body has found the magic bullet up here yet.

There has certainly been some good practices come about though.

I was very surprised last year when I went to a famous organic producer's field day. Years ago he had written an article about no till organic cereal crop production.

I could not believe that they were still tilling the shit out of everything. Even Gabe Brown has conceded that you might have to do a little tilling on these acres.

There are several obstacles to overcome, one of the largest being Federal Crop Insurance. Another obstacle would be land unsuitable to grazing...either no fences, no water or a lease that will not allow it.

Through years of investment we have unwittingly put together a place that is ideal for these practices. We have fence, water and cattle.

I just dont know how to completely eliminate tillage.

 

[cory]

I just dont know how to completely eliminate tillage.

A drill? Or isn't it that simple.

 

[cory]

Organic and no till go hand in hand from what I've been learning.

My takeaway from this thread is that organic requires tilling and tilling beats the F outta the soil and makes it less fertile and more heavily prone to erosion. Am I correct?

 

[FireFighterZero]

That would help, for sure. It would help you get through the residue better.

The big problem is the little weeds that come in the spring that need to be killed before you plant. You cant plant into those and still raise a crop.

Gabe Brown uses a little chemical.......savvy organic guys would use a little tillage.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Yes, I think you are correct Cory. The best way so far...and things are always changing, is to till as little as possible.

 

[squisher]

Big difference between commercial ag till vs no till vs and market gardening till vs no till I think. From what I've derived of vegetable gardening no till, it is going to be done organically whether certified or not. Permaculture is what I've been reading on a lot.

My parents are coming over tomorrow and going to look some things over with me. I'll be interested to go over what their plan will be.

I've been renoing the chicken condo today. Gonna get some layers back in. I used to keep about 25 hens but this time I'm only going to get about a dozen I think.

 

[squisher]

So I am going to go ahead with a no till plot. Im currently gathering a crap ton of cardboard to lay down first, then layering with manure, compost, woodchips, straw, and any other organic I can find. When I get my board together and lay it down I'll grab a few pics to show what I'm up to.

Start small everyone says. Ok, ok. So much for converting everything over to garlic! Lol.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Bah! Headlong plunging is the only way!

 

[squisher]

That's what I think! The property right behind me sold and they are turning all fifteen acres of it into orchard like right now. They ain't planting no test trees. Lol.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I told the Wife-a....the gawddurn recipe is already out there....lets get cooking! We aint one at a timing it here!

Makes me wonder....any need for wine grapes up in your neck of the woods?

 

[kevin bingham]

nice find ^^^

 

[cory]

Soil health movement, yeah baby!!

https://ensia.com/features/soil-health/

 

[kevin bingham]

thats the kind of article i need to read more of. How do i block out the news thay makes me feel low.

 

[squisher]

I told the Wife-a....the gawddurn recipe is already out there....lets get cooking! We aint one at a timing it here!

Makes me wonder....any need for wine grapes up in your neck of the woods?

There is plenty of vineyards around. Seems they favour the hillsides more? I'm pretty flat. But yah I'm in the north okanagan, and the okanagan valley itself up here is quite renounded for its wine production.

The new orchardist in behind swears I should do apples. Three years in the ground with these new hybrid trees and then he said he averages 25k/acre gross off of his existing orchard?

 

[FireFighterZero]

Hmmm....something to think about.

As long as you did not go full logger and cut your trees down to make the apples easier to harvest.....

If you get a chance, could you ask your neighbor what variety he grows? I would love some fruit trees around.....but as far as I know we are too harsh for most apples.

 

[squisher]

He's a bit tough to understand(heavy accent) but he said the new hybrids are what he grows. That I know from seeing his other orchard(I drive by it) are those little twig orchard trees that they plant really high density. Orchards are big here.

 

[FireFighterZero]

There was an old homestead to the east of me....still few pieces of iron around it.

When my dad was a kid, late 40's, his dad would take them over to the abandoned homestead to pick fruit. Plums and apples....maybe other stuff.

They had some fruit trees around back then. I wonder if the old time varieties were more hearty than the newer ones.

 

[squisher]

Do you have a plum tree Jim? Plums are dead easy and hardy as can be.

 

[FireFighterZero]

We will get one going and either a porcupine or the winter will kill them.

 

[squisher]

You got porcupine out there heh? Yah they can strip a tree like no tomorrow.

 

[FireFighterZero]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2o55Fz9RHzfpGZhaA&sig2=1pdyAGzvUTZXMAFWg5NZWg

I wonder if these guys export?

Not porcupine proof, but better winter hardiness than our varieties.

We have been told in the past that we should not be using wheat varieties from the State Of Montana system. Better to get them from Canada or Northern North Dakota.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I am in the middle of the dark blue...in northern Montana.