064

[HolmenTree]

Really!

That, and some knowledge.

Been over 20 years since I worked on the 064, never had the cylinder off my 20 yr old 066. Done a 044 not that long ago.

Pull top cover and muffler with torx wrench, pull off spark plug boot/cable ,loosen intake manifold clamp at cylinder,pry back rubber intake manifold, clean around cylinder base, remove 4 torx screws from cylinder base, pry with scrench and lift cylinder off piston.
Install new piston/rings and bearing, make sure piston pin circlips are seated and ring end gaps are lined up with pins.
Reasemble.
Can be done on the stump on a warm day with 2 simple tools

 

[Al Smith]

Ha ,don't fear the reaper .You'll never know how unless you get your feet wet .Everybody has their first time without going into details .

Get on with it .If you hit a snag we're right here .

 

[Magnus]

Crappy ignition on these and hard to find replacement.
The ignitions on most here is not availeble. You can get another but you need to replace flywheel.
I have one custemer saw that I put 034 ignition it, it is same, but that lasted just 15 tanks or so, then it was shot too.
It will end up on a shelf here I guess....

 

[Al Smith]

Okay here's what I found .The OEM number for a coil for an 064 is 1122 400 1300 .For 034 1125 400 1300 For 036 0000 400 1300 .

Now Baileys have an aftermarket coil they claim is the magic cure for about a dozen saws listed among them the 064 ,Now also keep in mind they list the same coil as a replacement for a 038 so with the process of deduction one might assume an 038 coil would interchange with a 064 but if it will or not remains to be seen .At any rate that aftermarket coil is about 60 bucks .

After thought : MFG supply lists the same number 0000 400 1300 for 44 bucks .

 

[Magnus]

Yes, It fits and runs but they will be a pain to start and perform less.
038 I have not looked at, but really doubt it will work.

 

[Al Smith]

The problem is having two models to be able to check if they might interchange . In my case I've got the 038's just no 064 .

 

[SouthSoundTree]

For the experienced mechanic, how long would this take, roughly? I'll multiply that time by 4.

What is this "squish" thing that I've heard about?

What do I need for a gasket/ sealant? I imagine something.

Is there something that I need to get the rings compressed?

What is this part about lining up the rings.

Reminder of my aforementioned comment, the deepest I've gotten with saw repair is an oiler replacement and carb rebuild (with y'all's help), both of which turned out fine.

 

[Al Smith]

Squish is the distance at piston top center from it's face to the bottom of the blind end of the cylinder .

I have no idea what that measurement would be on an 064 .One method to measure same is to use short pieces of soft solder on top of the piston then roll it over to flatten the solder .You then use micrometers to measure the thickness of the flattened solder which will get you fairly close to the actual clearance .It's pretty safe to take it down to 23-25 thou for all intents .

If the thing does okay the way it is I personally wouldn't fiddle with it .

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Thanks, Al.

What is the purpose of reducing the squish?

Which is the blind end? The end opposite the crankshaft, or the opposite of the end opposite the crankshaft, aka the crankshaft end? (oiler and carb comment, again)

Out of curiousity, how much is removed to get to that 23-25 thousandths? I'm just leaving that part alone, but I'm curious all the same.

 

[Al Smith]

Blind end meaning the portion opposite the crankshaft .What would be called the "head deck " if it had an actual head .Purpose of reduction of this measurement is to increase the compression .Kind of like cramming 6 pounds of chit in a 5 pound bag ,so to speak .

Well know depends on how you do it as to how much much you shave .Sealant would probably take up maybe 2-3 thou .So with removal of a standard Stihl cylinder gasket which is 20 thou minus 2-3 thou you drop it 17-18 thou .

I prefer a gasket so if I wanted to lower the thing by say 20 I'd shave 20 off the cylinder base .Then I have a lathe so my methods would vary from others who don't have the means .For all intents a couple thou wouldn't make the much difference unless it were too close .

Another thing to consider .While it might improve how it runs a tad bit it might turn that thing into an arm breaker .I don't think an 064 came with a compression release

I've never turned a wrench one time on an 064 but I'd guess I could peal one down,remove the gasket and reassemble in an hour,hour and a half . Someone who wasn't familiar with a Stihl might fiddle with it half a day .--just a guess ---

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Thanks.

It the gasket re-useable or replaced?

What would I be buying to do this work (wrist pin on up, I think, if I follow the advice of "while you're in there, you might as well...")?

I'm game to learn new stuff, and now I'm not relying on the 064 for a big oiler.

No de-comp on it, nor elastostart. No interest in an arm breaker, here.

Thanks again.

 

[Al Smith]

Unless you're going to replace the piston you don't need worry about the pin .

If so stuff a clean rag around the rod end area in the bottom open end of the crankshaft so as not to drop stuff into it .Pry the circlip loose with a ice pick but keep your thumb on it else the SOB could fly off into orbit like shot from a cannon never to be seen again .Then just shove the pin out of the piston from the other side that still has a clip in it .

Assembley is in reverse with the arrow embossed on the top of the piston towards the exhaust side . Start the clip in by holding with a pair of needle nose pliers and get one end started ,open end of the clip up and walk it around with a small screwdriver .Use the thumb again because it can flip out .Much grinding and gnashing of teeth so to speak if that happens . Just don't take real big "bites " if you are removing or installing a clip is the key .

 

[Magnus]

Reducing squish gives higher compression. It compress same amount of air/fuel mix and as spark comes you have higher compressed fuel air mix.
This is all well and good, but what you should be after is faster and more expansion.
A aspect in this is fuel. To run higher compression and be sure it doesn't boil or detonate before spark you need good fuel.
By just higher compression there is little gain.

Most who say there is have experience based on removing a gasket. This lower the hole head, but it also change the porting.
Actually while gaining in one end you loose in another.

Better is to add a gasket or make one thicker. Increasing the Compressed volume of fuel air mix and fill it up with more fuel air mix so it can expand with more power and speed perhaps. This you do by changing the time intake port is open.
Next bottle neck is often in the speed and time to transfer fuel air mix from crankcase and up above piston.

Most gain is not in redesigning the engine to a different configuration, it is in perfecting and optimizing what is done already.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

A bit over my head, I but I'm learning from it. Thanks.

 

[dastevoe]

What makes you think it is in need of rings or top end ? Did you pull the muffler off & check for scoring ? By the looks & sounds of your vid I'd be checking out the carb (kit & clean), then a good re-tune. Sounded "fat" & out of tune to me :roll:

Steve

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Cant...........................................................Play............................................Video..............................Arrrrg!........................

 

[SouthSoundTree]

What makes you think it is in need of rings or top end ? Did you pull the muffler off & check for scoring ? By the looks & sounds of your vid I'd be checking out the carb (kit & clean), then a good re-tune. Sounded "fat" & out of tune to me :roll:

Steve

Just seemed like its old and worn . Maybe not the case. Its actually seems better than it has in the past, after messing with the trigger mechanism, and putting in a new air filter, rather than just cleaning the old one. I was getting some poor performance.

When I get some time, I'll look into the saw more. Maybe the carb kit is a good idea. Cheap and all, and within my reach to do myself.

Part of the idea changing the rings is to learn to do more work on saws. Possibly a misguided idea.

In the one video, it smoked a lot, which I haven't seen before. Its sat for a while, maybe 1-2 months. ???



Stephan, don't know why it didn't work for you.

 

[dastevoe]

Just seemed like its old and worn . Maybe not the case. Its actually seems better than it has in the past, after messing with the trigger mechanism, and putting in a new air filter, rather than just cleaning the old one. I was getting some poor performance.
When I get some time, I'll look into the saw more. Maybe the carb kit is a good idea. Cheap and all, and within my reach to do myself.
Part of the idea changing the rings is to learn to do more work on saws. Possibly a misguided idea.
In the one video, it smoked a lot, which I haven't seen before. Its sat for a while, maybe 1-2 months. ???
Stephan, don't know why it didn't work for you.

It's never a bad or misguided idea to try to learn new things, you'll appreciate that knowledge gained when it comes to other fixes !! I'd get her tuned with a carb kit & fresh fuel then a compression check before a ring job though.

Steve

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Thanks, Steve. Not misguided to learn, but misguided as to what it might need.

 

[HolmenTree]

Thanks, Steve. Not misguided to learn, but misguided as to what it might need.

Sean just by pulling the starter rope when the 064 is cold will tell you if it needs new rings. Seeing these older saws had no decomp a good sharp snap on the starter handle with a slow pull and you're feeling lots of resistence will tell you if its got good compression or not.
Also pull off the rewind housing and put your weight on the saw while its sitting on the workbench and with your other hand grasp the flywheels starter cup and try and wiggle it directly up and down. If you "hear" even a slight rattle that will tell you the main crank bearings are on the way out. A slight bit of play is normal.