PNW Pacific Madrone, will more sunlight stimute dormant buds?

[SouthSoundTree]

We have a large PM that has a very long trunk which reaches laterally toward a historic home. The concern is failure, and requested action is to remove the entire lead (40-50' long, probably 12"x12" at the attachment to the main stem).

The foliage is all at the end, so no laterals to reduce back to.

Question is: Will exposing the trunk to more sunlight likely get dormant buds to sprout down the length?

Goal is: reduce the trunk rather than remove it entirely by reducing some end-weight to keep the property manager happy, and prune some shadowing fir limbs that will allow light onto the trunk, hopefully stimulating sprouts for branch formation, allowing later reduction.

Thoughts?

 

[Paul B]

I dont have many too near me but I would think if you looked at the south and western sides of the trunks of the trees in your area, you could likely see if there is a propensity for bud break on the sunward side or not.

 

[sotc]

Not typically. They willsprout from stumps but rarely do they regenerate from adventitioud buds, at least around here

 

[NickfromWI]

I'm gonna guess that if you top it, sprouts will come. What's the alternative? The whole thing just dies? Unless it's mostly dead already, will it really just never sprout?

Can't just get rid of it?

 

[sotc]

I don't believe I have ever seen a topped madrone that was alive. Anyone else?

 

[Bodean]

Doubt it will sprout suckers. Madrone's a pretty fickle tree.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I don't believe I have ever seen a topped madrone that was alive. Anyone else?

I have. A waterfront view property neighboring a customer has a small madrone that has been "topped", and it actually looks pretty good from what I could see from 40' away. It has several small leaders that resemble a crown. I don't know if it was "topped" or crown reduced to tell the truth.



For clarity on this big madrone, the leader that I'm discussing is a relatively small part of a large madrone.

I'm not suggesting heading it back to form a stub, and hoping it suckers, rather reduce the foliage at the end of the lead with reduction cuts, and expose the long bare trunk to some more light by pruning some shading branches from nearby doug-firs, with hopes that sprouting will occur, which can be pruned into some laterals, and over the long-term, reduce back to these laterals.

I appreciate people's inputs.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I think that the Ascending the Giants guys had a powerline madrone that was "topped" repeatedly over the years and grew to be very large, while short, and it was unfortunately finally killed by the line clearance company with herbicide.

I've got some madrones near me that are along a powerline, and they look surprisingly good, although they are relatively young.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

This is something that I was reading before posting.

http://www.cof.orst.edu/cof/fs/PDFs/ec1619-e.pdf

End of page 4, onto page 5. Maintaining madrone health:


suggests "adequate sunlight from above means full sunlight from above and at least partial sunlight from the sides. This may require removing overtopping and/ or surrounding trees."



"Because madrone has think, easily injured bark, especially if the tree is growing in the shade, avoid suddenly exposing the trunk and branches to full sunight. To avoid this, think out surrounding trees in the fall or winter, or cut down the neighboring trees gradually, or wrap the area of the lower trunk with arborist tree wrap."
"

 

[NickfromWI]

I'm not suggesting heading it back to form a stub, and hoping it suckers ...

I misunderstood you. I was thinking this is exactly what you were planning on doing.

So now I got you: Can you encourage back-budding (a term I read in a bonsai book and it is exactly what you're trying to do) by pruning back tips (often done in bonsai) and then pruning above to let sun in.

I've done it to trees here in LA and it has worked well. In fact, this is exactly what I do with every hedge I work on. But I'll bow-out now since I have absolutely zero experience with madrones!

love
nick

 

[sotc]

I was pictureing internodal cuts too. If there is just a fluff of growth on the end of a 40-50' long limb, how are you going to thin enough weight out of the end to make a difference?

 

[NickfromWI]

Good question.

Though I think he's saying to take a little bit now to help the situation, but plan for a more drastic cutting later, after the buds hopefully break further down the stem.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

The park maintenance worker has a fear-based request. If the branch/ trunk fails, it will be on him to repair the building. He's re-roofing it now. I think the mental process goes like this, "Boy, I am doing a lot of work on this roof. I sure don't want anything to make me have to repair it in the middle of winter."

If I can come up with a sound 5-year plan and 10-year plan, it might be workable. If I measure the trunk, and show that it is really not likely to damage the building much or at all at this point, based on the size of the wood that could hit it (especially versus the other trees that could fall on it), then a light prune to the madrone and pruning the shading firs to satisfy him (who is the Arbor Crew's "customer") in the short term, and help the tree by avoiding a large would that wouldn't compartmentalize well could help keep the tree in place longer.

Sorry for no pictures.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Its more than a "fluff", I don't have a good adjective to describe it. Its enough foliage and small diameter branches to support that trunk/branch, though.


It might be worth mentioning that I believe the farther norththe madrone is growing (up to a point, at least) , the larger they get. From what I've gathered, they are significantly smaller at the southern end of their range than up this way. There is one BEAUTIFUL madrone in Olympia that has three trunks coming from one base. They literally are on the scale of 3', 3', and 4' dbh. A customer who owns the commercial property wanted me to cut it down a few years ago so it wouldn't interfere with development at a "significant" or "historical tree".


In this maintenance/ office/ housing area of the park, they've already cut some bigger madrones in order to develop a couple of tent/ trailer sites for park hosts/ park volunteers. It would be cool to try to take some better care of this one, as much as I have any say.

 

[treelooker]

Are there no buds visible, or nodes where laterals once grew, where accessory buds likely lie dormant? Cutting back to a bud is ANSI-compliant crown reduction. It took some work to get that wording in there; please use it! got a hand lens? Camera?