Is 404 obsolete?

[treebilly]

I've recently purchased an 088 with a 36" bar and chain. My local dealer doesn't even stock that size chain anymore, plus after a bit of searching found that they want way to much to order larger bars. I can buy canon bars for what they want. With my limited computer skills I can find very little on anything 404. I know I've seen pics of some of you guys with big bar and chain combos so any help will be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Burnham]

It's still pretty easy to find out here in big timber country. And for a saw with that kind of power and torque, I think it's the best choice.

Try Madsen's or Bailey's. They'll have it.

If you're gonna run with the big dogs, you have to go all in. No place to cheap out, won't work out well in the end.

 

[HolmenTree]

Yep if you have big cube displacement you'll never go back to 3/8".

 

[treebilly]

And go with 63 not 50 on longer bars right? Prolly missing a decimal point and a 0 but I'm tired and had a couple cold ones.

 

[Burnham]

Yessir. Out hereabouts we don't much worry about those petty decimal point details. Any old school sawyer or saw mechanic would call it "50 gauge" or "63 gauge".

 

[flushcut]

I run 404 .063 on my 3120 Madsens is the place to order from.

 

[HolmenTree]

All .404 chain made today is .063 drive link gauge.
But you may find old inventory of it in .058 somewhere. I have a roll of .050 from the 1970's.
Better match with .063 chain as today's rim sprockets and bar noses are now all basically .063

 

[woodworkingboy]

If I was purchasing new bars and chain, I'd like to go with 404-.063 on my large over 100cc Stihls that run long bars, but way back when i wanted to be running 3/8 - .050 chain on all my saws, I purchased that size sprocket and gauge bars and spun loops for the long bars. I would assume that the .404 -.063 would be a stronger and more rigid chain to advantage, but the 3/8 chain has worked very well for me, at least to my sense about it. Never broke a chain and it cuts well. Not trying to argue the point or anything, just saying. I'm not running those long bars and chains very frequently, if that would be a factor, but they have cut a lot of big and hard wood with the lighter chain.

 

[HolmenTree]

I agree Jay 3/8 will handle everything and the best all in one pitch.
But the big block saws with long bars suit the .404 workhorse chain nicely. Over built, durability.
My experience milling lumber with my 090 ripping 16 foot slabs off a 30" diameter spruce log the .404 holds up nicely.
Biggest advantage is barely any heat stretch, longer holding a sharp cutting edge and better cut stability in the bar kerf with the oversized drive links.
Not that long ago the top chain .500 (1/2") was dominate, then before that in the old school days we had 9/16", 5/8" and 3/4" chain Haha.

 

[stig]

As per usuyal, I do it differently.
Since .404 is next to impossible to find in Scandinavia and when found is usually old style round cutter model, I have only run 3/8 on my big saws.
I've worn a 084 out milling and run a 880 now with 36" and 60" bars.
Like Jay, I've never broken a chain on it either milling or falling.
In fact, I haven't broken a chain for so ong, that I can't even remember the last time.
Used to be a frequent occurrance in my youth.
They must build them better today, I guess.

 

[pete mctree]

I run .404 on my 084. Everything else 3/8. We can get it quite easily here in the UK thankfully

 

[lumberjack]

I run 3/8" on everything but grapple saws. I've never seen the advantage to .404, including on 088s with up to 72" bars.

 

[HolmenTree]

Lots of advantages on those big long bars like my 60 inch when it gets nice and hot.....alot less re-tensioning and chain derailing for one.

 

[flushcut]

404 is beefier, last longer, stretches less, more cutter tooth, and hogs out some wood. Great for stumping! I just flushed 33 stumps around 30"-50" and filed twice. It's a micro chizzy chain that just keeps on going. 32" bar

 

[HolmenTree]

Even better for stumping try a loop of Stihl .404H harvester chain. Not recommended for hand held use because of liability issues from the dealer, but toughest non carbide chain available to put on your saw.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Willard, what makes the harvester tougher, different steel in the cutters? Thanks.

 

[HolmenTree]

Jay, non chisel ,heavier chrome layer and heavier chassis.
If you can find old inventory of 1/2" chain that would be heavier but chrome layer not as thick.

 

[HolmenTree]

Another note about the harvester chain.
Main reason it's not recommended for hand held use is the depth gauges have no anti kickback deflection profile what so ever.
It's profile is straight verticle with no side lateral defective profile also. Just like a modified race chain these depth gauges optimize in clearing chips from the kerf .

 

[woodworkingboy]

If one was aware of the potential hazards, would it make for an improved cutting chain in hand held saws for general use?

 

[HolmenTree]

When I got the contract years ago to cut 54" diameter cull paper rolls in half. I was using my Stihl 090AV-60". I needed a new .404 chain and the harvester model was all my dealer had in Stock.
Worked out very well as that loop of chain lasted the whole 2 months of cutting 12 hr a day 5 days a week at $100 hour. Used 5 gallons of mix gas and a gallon of bar oil a day. Best day over 40 rolls cut.

I found a niche for that chain and it did the job. Now for lowering stumps.....yes. But for safety reasons the operator should only cut and set wedges himself with no bystanders within the reach of the bar tip in case of kickback.

I remember a time a local worker was running a brush saw thinning regeneration stands. His son was helping by grabbing the cut stems and laying them on the ground for him. The circular saw head kicked back and cut the boy in the femoral artery. The boy bled to death instantly.

 

[flushcut]

I might have to try some of that. I really want to find some old chipper style chain.

 

[HolmenTree]

I have a ton of old 3/8" chipper chain but it doesn't compare to the modern. 404 harvester chain.
I got so much stuff on hand I could just forget about treework and work out of my shop and sell that stuff, piece by piece, Haha.