Felling escapes

[Treeaddict]

In some training seminars they’ve said something like “When felling, 90% of injuries or deaths happen within 15’ of the stump” (something like that). Does that mostly apply to production logging rather than urban removals?

My observation is that loggers get as far and as fast as possible while an arborist will stay close and may even steer the tree as it’s falling by cutting the hinge wood accordingly.

Personally, at this point, I retreat at a 45* angle to about 15-20’ away before turning to watch the fruits of my labor.

It seems that maybe the stats are based on logging where many factors can cause a struck by? Very little chance or a negative outcome in an open environment and/or after it’s been “disarmed”by a climber in the arborist world?

Do you notice the same?

 

[lxskllr]

From this page...

Work-Related Fatalities Associated with Tree Care Operations --- United States, 1992--2007

www.cdc.gov

"The most common events leading to death were being struck by or against an object (such as a tree or branch) (42% of deaths), falls to a lower level (34%), and contact with electric current (14%) (Table 2). Regarding job tasks, 44% of decedents were either trimming or pruning a tree when they were injured, and 23% were involved in tree felling."

 

[Nutball]

You don't steer a tree with the back cut, it is steered by the face. It would take a heavy lean to steer using the back cut, and the only steering would have to be towards the favor.

 

[Tree09]

Once the tree commits get the ef out of there. I honestly don't like to be there even then. All it takes is one bad bounce and that's it. Simple rules followed everytime keep you safe.

 

[Treeaddict]

I agree that the “steering” that can be done by taking hinge wood away in mid fall is negligible. Still, seen many do it. I figure that if I don’t have it right by the time the tree starts moving, there’s nothing I can do at the stump to improve it.

 

[Treeaddict]

I’m kinda surprised that pruning had nearly double the incidents of felling. Does this list include home owners? That would make sense. The ladder and saw folks could be a bulk of that?!

 

[Treeaddict]

I guess if you include line clearance, that’s probably a huge part of the trimming and pruning number

 

[lxskllr]

Without tearing into the data, I suspect that includes landscapers also, which aren't gonna have the same skillset as an arborist, though they sometimes engage in similar work.

 

[stikine]

You don't steer a tree with the back cut, it is steered by the face.

Not quite right. The tree is steered by the hinge, which is made by the undercut and the backcut. There are some subtle techniques with boutique undercut snipes etc. that can steer things during the fall.

 

[SkwerI]

Line clearance guys may be butchers and slow as fuk, but they are typically very safe. They are heavily regulated with all sorts of rules most of us think of as unrealistic suggestions. Currently watching line clearance guys remove a few trees behind my house and it took two guys 6 hours to remove one skinny scrawny 20" oak tree. But he followed every single OSHA rule to the letter. Two hands on the saw at all times, chain brake applied every time he removed the saw from a cut, I had to quit watching because it was so painful watching him waste so much time on a simple 30 minute removal.

 

[Treeaddict]

Interesting to note that 75% of deaths occurred where there were no formal written safety procedures in place

 

[Nutball]

Not quite right. The tree is steered by the hinge, which is made by the undercut and the backcut. There are some subtle techniques with boutique undercut snipes etc. that can steer things during the fall.

I was thinking of the front of the hinge doing the steering. I have not noticed a tree being steered (or what I would call steering) by the back cut. Most often the wood on the back side would rather rip apart than hang on and steer the tree. Anything going on up front can easily cause steering.

But my experience is limited only falling fewer than 5 trees per year (usually someone else is more eager to step up & do it). I do make sure to watch what happens to maintain experience with cause and effect, and have judged some cases rightly against what the faller thought would happen.

 

[stikine]

The hinge is your friend and is the most important part of the felling process. There are lots of ways to make the hinge but it will be the most influential thing to steer your tree into the desired lay.

 

[cory]

I too agree that some steering is achieved via cutting/not cutting the back cut as the tree is committing to the lay

 

[Treeaddict]

Yeah, reading through the reports John sent, only 1% came from utilities.

 

[Burnham]

I was thinking of the front of the hinge doing the steering. I have not noticed a tree being steered (or what I would call steering) by the back cut. Most often the wood on the back side would rather rip apart than hang on and steer the tree. Anything going on up front can easily cause steering.

But my experience is limited only falling fewer than 5 trees per year (usually someone else is more eager to step up & do it). I do make sure to watch what happens to maintain experience with cause and effect, and have judged some cases rightly against what the faller thought would happen.

One can manipulate how much of, and where the hinge is and is not, during the fell. Early is when one can make some changes to what happens.

This is not manipulating the back cut, but it is happening during the fell, after the face is set.

For example, think of felling just outside of the reach of an adjacent crown, then sever some hinge on one side of the hinge to cause a swing to the opposite side underneath that crown, to avoid something in the direct lay.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yous guys are gonna get ol murph stirred up and shat🥴🥴

 

[Burnham]

Do not want .

 

[Altissimus]

Love when people don't understand Logging (used to be one of them), truth is steering is at the back cut and is needed all the time in the woods ... and the part about loggers getting out of the way quicker than arborists , nope , many times here with hardwood logs especially veneer we borecut and have to stay in there backcutting to bring it over on the thinnest possible hinge without any fiberpull to preserve value ... still escape it but

 

[lxskllr]

Are you saying you bore it, pare the hinge down as small as possible, then backcut?

 

[Altissimus]

Other way around , (Depending on your bore cut) you're thinning the hinge at the backcut to bring it over (most of the time on two posts of thin hinge really) ... properly done , kinda pops off the stump without pulling or splitting

 

[stikine]

Not sure what Dave is splaining but the hinge you end up with is what you got for steering the tree.

 

[Altissimus]

Really a Veneer felling reference I guess , was trying to explain that aiming is the face cut , steering is the back cut ... can thin one side or the other ... also point was loggers have stay in there

 

[cory]

I remember before I knew about bore cutting, wrecking at least one beautiful, large oak log. Cutting the back cut as fast as I could was not fast enough.

 

[stikine]

Really a Veneer felling reference I guess , was trying to explain that aiming is the face cut , steering is the back cut ... can thin one side or the other ... also point was loggers have stay in there

I get that but the hinge you end up with is what steers the tree. It's a combination of the undercut with the back cut. I think we are on the same page but maybe using different terminology.